[access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion

  • From: Saqib <saqibh23@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:03:34 +0100

Hi. I have tried this app on my spare Samsung Europa and the touch screen 
doesn't seem to be very responsive. Their for I haven't had the chance to fully 
test the app. 

Sent from my iPhone4S 

On 2 Aug 2012, at 12:02, Chris Moore <moore.c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I am sure people in the blind "ghetto" will love this suite.
> 
> But it is as I expected, and I am sure it has a place for some people, but it 
> is not for me I am afraid.
> 
> I will stick with my iPhone, it just works and is slick with it too.
> 
> Right I am off to take a hammer to JAWS.  I am testing a website, and JAWS 
> for a change can't see half the stuff Voiceover in Mountain Lion can see (I 
> know, what a shocker).
> 
> 
> On 2 Aug 2012, at 11:17, "Jackie Cairns" <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mo
>> 
>> I read your very interesting message on the BCAB list which Colin Howard
>> posted, presumably on your behalf.
>> 
>> I'll say here what I said there.  Personally I feel it is reinventing the
>> wheel.  I think it is taking advantage of those who perhaps haven't had the
>> opportunity to really try out Android or Apple to see whether they can
>> really master those operating systems.  But, as you say, time will tell.
>> 
>> I'm afraid that the barking made me cringe.  Do we really have to have these
>> stupid sounds incorporated into "blind" products?
>> 
>> 
>> Kind Regards,
>> 
>> Jackie Cairns
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> Mobeen Iqbal
>> Sent: 02 August 2012 00:02
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> The georgie developers have finally seen fit to provide a trial on the
>> google play store, all be it a 14 day trial. I have included a link below,
>> as well as my initial findings. The following is just my opinion and i do
>> not intend to start a debate on list, but it would be interesting to see
>> what others think.
>> 
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.screenreader.Georgie&featu
>> re=search_result
>> 
>> Main app interface: the first criticism i have is the fact that all
>> navigation has to be acomplished via a touch screen. Trying on a samsung
>> galaxy pro, i could not click any of the controls via the keyboard even
>> though they are recognised as buttons. I could also not dial a phone number
>> via the keyboard, something i was very very surprised at! 
>> something so simple that's been around for years has been over looked? 
>> this is probably because you have to hover over each item on the screen with
>> your finger. on to my next point. it took me a while to figure out that you
>> have to hover over a certain icon for 2 seconds or more until a tone is
>> heard, then lift your finger to activate it. being used to the double tap
>> system normally used in android, this came as a little qwerk i could've done
>> with out, though i can see the logic behind it i guess. 
>> The logic being cut out the need to tap the icon twice and risk hitting
>> another icon while you're at it. Also, i would've liked the ability to turn
>> off the dog barking sound when the app is launched, and every time you
>> return to the home screen from outside the app. nothing against guide dogs,
>> but it could be a bit of an embarrassment in public places! 
>> Also, my phone really started lagging, something its never done with other
>> applications no matter how many i've had installed at any one time. while
>> i'm writing this, the phone's completely crashed, i'll go on to the apps
>> when it reboots.
>> 
>> On to the apps:
>> 
>> Now my battery's back in and the thing's booted, by default, you can try 
>> out all the apps in the trial. i liked the fact you can adjust screen 
>> contrast/colours, and also the simplicity of the interface. there needs 
>> to be more user input in to what can be configured/added for the price, 
>> i can see this being aimed at a minority market relating specifically to 
>> the elderly or motor impaired.
>> 
>> I did not like the fact that the volume rocker is taken over by the 
>> software. there are meant to be 3 pages, each page containing the 
>> various apps in various catagories. The volume rocker, instead of 
>> allowing you to alter the volume of the app in realtime cycles through 
>> the various pages. it also appears to unlock the phone when its been 
>> locked, something which i wasn't too impressed with. on android, its 
>> standard practis that all buttons are locked and the power button plus 
>> jesture is used to unlock. page1 has your standard apps, messaging 
>> dialer etc, page 2 goes on to OCR, colour recognition etc, page 3 is 
>> thankfully nothing rood, its your lifestile apps containing twitter, 
>> audio book services, talking newspapers etc. I would've apreciated it if 
>> the developers had enabled scroling so you could scrole to page 2/3, or 
>> again provided a setting to switch between various modes for various 
>> functions i.e the ability to turn things on and off, or use alternative 
>> jestures for commands.
>> 
>> I am going to be using the software over the next 2 weeks, so may post 
>> further findings. Also if people request, i may consider doing an audio 
>> demo all be it opinionated giving each app a chance, to save people 
>> installing it. I would also have liked to see tighter integration with 
>> google maps. At the moment, yes you can find out where your nearest bus 
>> stop is, taxi information, but you don't appear to be able to send these 
>> to google maps to navigate to the destination in mind.
>> 
>> The voice applications also appear, or may rely on the internet. I 
>> haven't tested the application offline yet with no internet connection, 
>> but suspect that because of past experience, the phone will be sending 
>> what ever you say, dictated text messages, numbers, etc to google's 
>> servers then back to your phone. Any android user using this app may 
>> wish they were on some kind of data plan if this is the case.
>> 
>> I have also tried the colour recogniser application. ironically, a 
>> freely available talking colour application from the android market, 
>> Colour ID,  produced better results than their app! Their app just 
>> stated my teashirt colour as black, the colour ID app was kind enough to 
>> be more specific and tell me that it was brownish black, and that the 
>> colour of my door was grey.
>> 
>> The OCR app appeared to be doing something, though it requires the user 
>> to have the phone level, i.e as if resting flat on a desk before it'll 
>> scan. this could proove to be an issue if reading a sign/business 
>> information that isn't necessarily on a flat surface. oh dear, where's 
>> the gents? i'm getting desperate now!
>> 
>> You can configure settings remotely for georgie via the web, or sight 
>> and sound can do this for you. i'm not comfortable with this approach. 
>> I'd like to know how secure the remote access app used is? is it 
>> encrypted? how safe is user data? Privacy is at risk, what if they can 
>> read your text messages? one user complained that sight and sound or 
>> someone sent him an unsolicited text message because he posted a bad 
>> review! this could be a error/over reaction or mistake  on his part, 
>> but? i've installed this on a handset i'm not bothered about but i'd be 
>> hesitant to install this on a handset i'm using for daily use.
>> 
>> I would've liked to see inclusion of an email application, as well as a 
>> web browser of some kind. georgie at present won't support this at 
>> present so you'd have to use talkback to surf the web.
>> 
>> I also couldn't find an option to access the rest of the phone's 
>> settings, though i haven't customised it or atempted to unlock advanced 
>> settings if any are available. apparently you can control what the user 
>> can do on the phone and provide/limit access to certain functions, so 
>> we'll see if in the next few days i unlock this supposed functionality. 
>> An option to access the android market or the app draw would've been 
>> nice, though again this doesn't appear to be their aim. their aim 
>> appears to be make the phone as simple as possible for a basic user, and 
>> that's it. for a hefty price tag! The app also froze, and i received a 
>> force close message on screen informing me that georgie had terminated. 
>> i then had to reactivate it via my home button. that, by the way was 
>> when i tried to access the georgie news option. this option is meant to 
>> provide you with the latest updates from the world of georgie, i have 
>> visions of them providing georgie with his own personal blog! there are 
>> after all pages on facebook for pets. nothing wrong with that of 
>> course... but? anyway back to the point.
>> 
>> And now on to my final point. the contacts app, call/phone app, 
>> messaging app, colour recogniser app, and even the OCR app using google 
>> goggles all have free alternatives. Google maps are a lot better now and 
>> its becoming easier to find your location, to navigate to places, to 
>> find local places of interest, and its all free! even if you do 
>> pourchase mobile accessibility, at least you can use it outside its own 
>> homescreen if you wish! What would then prompt me to buy this. I would 
>> buy it if i had a really basic android user in mind, though i'd first 
>> try my very hardest to go the free/lower cost  root not because i'm 
>> stingy, but a lot of the time people don't have money to burn and also 
>> there are apps out there that do the job. the eyes free shell home 
>> screen is perfectly customisable and allows you to make things as simple 
>> as they could be for someone by adding/removing the apps the user has 
>> access to. Mobile accessibility is basic enough for most people. Also, 
>> if my client just wanted a basic phone, basic second hand and brand new 
>> nokia symbian phones abound on the internet. the haven phone could also 
>> be imported to the UK, and i saw a phone that spoke the numbers dialed 
>> for £15 in tesco the other day. The only reason i would personally spend 
>> any money on this application is the OCR capability, and possibly the 
>> audio book/talking newspaper ability though at that price, do we get a 
>> free subscription to the services in question? perhaps we should?
>> 
>> the pricing model is also unclear. they state that £150 will get you the 
>> default apps. now as far as i know, that's just the basic apps, dialer, 
>> messaging, contacts, georgie news and help, the phone dialer, and the 
>> call log. mobile accessibility offers all this and more for almost a 
>> third of the price! yes MA isn't perfect but that's not the point, who 
>> is? £25 extra each for the lifestile and communications apps doesn't net 
>> you much. the audio books app, the camera app, again a free alternative 
>> available, OCR, tweet by voice, ask any question by voice anyone ever 
>> heard of freely available jeanie? talking newspapers, podcasts, and lets 
>> not forget the amazing voice blog. If anyone wants to hear me singing in 
>> the shower, please let me know! the potential is amazing isn't it? the 
>> sarcasm is partly intentional, sorry i'll stop it now...
>> 
>> So, from this hotchpotch email, a conclusion: the app is very over 
>> priced, even code factory who i expected to charge a lot more for their 
>> app haven't charged much at all, its even available stripped down in the 
>> US for free. If users have free alternatives and are only paying for 
>> simplicity which can be achieved with selection of a few choice free/low 
>> paid apps, what will compell people to buy this? now if they'd included 
>> a turn by turn navigation aid like wayfinder for symbian if anyone 
>> remembers that, that would've impressed me. I really hope that the 
>> company does well, though there's still a long way to go. I hope it does 
>> not go the same way as thunder i.e get knocked out by an open source, 
>> free!  effort like NVDA. I never really managed to achieve much with the 
>> thunder screen reader, it was rather embarrassing when atempting to demo 
>> it as part of training a few years ago it kept crashing. we couldn't 
>> even get it to read out word documents or the web in a satisfactory manner.
>> 
>> As i have already said the opinions i express above are just based on 
>> early findings. A lot could change over the next 2 weeks. I may end up 
>> loving? georgie, though i doubt i'll be paying for it. If i've been 
>> harsh on the developers, it wasn't intentional. the georgie app only has 
>> a 2.2 star rating on the play store, and the majority of the reviews are 
>> from those that are experiencing frustration using the application. some 
>> can't get it to work though this could be user error. i wonder how many 
>> phones they tested this on?
>> 
>> From a business standpoint, if you set the right price people will buy 
>> your product, set it too high and they'll turn to other sollutions. £300 
>> with a handset included? a Nokia C5 with talks costs £100, a basic 
>> handset like the sony experia pro with icecream sandwitch which is 
>> totally accessible would only cost £180 at the most.
>> 
>> finally, i'd like to round things off by quoting a comment from someone 
>> called justin on the eyes-free list with which i agree. i hope you don't 
>> mind me quoting you justin, though i don't know you personally.
>> 
>> Justin <justinmacleod@xxxxxxxxxxx> Aug 01 10:06PM +0100
>> 
>> That's what I think is so scandalous. They are indeed targeting older people
>> and those who are less up to speed with computers, those who don't know
>> better or those that can't, for whatever reason, cope with the free, cheeper
>> alternative that actually does more. Why should they have to pay more for
>> less?
>> 
>> Anyway, it would be great to hear people's experiences. If i'm wrong 
>> about anything in this email, i'll gladly stand corrected and i'm still 
>> giving georgie a fair chance. People are also welcome to write to me off 
>> list,
>> 
>> mobeeniqbal@xxxxxxxxx
>> 
>> is where you'll find me. Its taken the best part of 2 hours to write 
>> this, anyone for a cup of tea?
>> 
>> Thanks for reading,
>> 
>> Mo.
>> 
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