[access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion

  • From: Chris Moore <moore.c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:07:15 +0100

Perhaps the product is not aimed at us?

Look we are all here chatting via email etc which assumes most of you are tech 
savvy or have a good degree of basic  computer / technical skills.  Perhaps the 
product is aimed at people who just would not have a clue when it comes to 
using a smart phone such as the elderly.  It is a fact that smart phones or 
super smart phones as they seem to be called now, are out selling the types of 
phones which have keyboards and/or number keypads.  Eventually the market maybe 
dominated with touch screen phones and what is left might not be accessible to 
blind users.  At least Georgie will provide a very basic easy option for people 
who are not tech savvy and/or scared off by touch devices etc.  But at the end 
of the day, this product will enable that market, and that is a good thing 
right?

I am sure with feedback the product will grow in time and you have to take your 
hat off to them for getting off their ass and putting it together, even though 
it was probably originally developed for their own purposes.  Nobody is forcing 
anyone to buy it and if you don't need it, then just skip over it.  But I am 
sure there will be a few users out there who will gain enormously from this 
product.

I have to be honest, it won't be me, but one day it might be someone I know.

Good luck to them I say.

Chris 
On 2 Aug 2012, at 14:15, william lomas <will.d.lomas@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> i just think it showing what pathetic products blind people r expected to 
> use; as android has a whole suite of apps why do you need this set and the 
> price what was it, 150 gbp? if you are prepared to learn georgie then learn 
> the android it like mobile accessibility for android, you have its own suite 
> but then when you go outside of it you have to use the keyboard of the phone 
> if you have one anyway whereas the talk back and other products just work :)
> 
> On 2 Aug 2012, at 13:05, Eleanor Burke <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> I wouldn't mind but my guide dogs, currently Neela, does not bark *smile* so 
>> why the barking?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Cairns" 
>> <jackie.cairnsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:17 AM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi Mo
>>> 
>>> I read your very interesting message on the BCAB list which Colin Howard
>>> posted, presumably on your behalf.
>>> 
>>> I'll say here what I said there.  Personally I feel it is reinventing the
>>> wheel.  I think it is taking advantage of those who perhaps haven't had the
>>> opportunity to really try out Android or Apple to see whether they can
>>> really master those operating systems.  But, as you say, time will tell.
>>> 
>>> I'm afraid that the barking made me cringe.  Do we really have to have these
>>> stupid sounds incorporated into "blind" products?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> 
>>> Jackie Cairns
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>> Mobeen Iqbal
>>> Sent: 02 August 2012 00:02
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] georgie trial now available, initial opinion
>>> 
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> The georgie developers have finally seen fit to provide a trial on the
>>> google play store, all be it a 14 day trial. I have included a link below,
>>> as well as my initial findings. The following is just my opinion and i do
>>> not intend to start a debate on list, but it would be interesting to see
>>> what others think.
>>> 
>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.screenreader.Georgie&featu
>>> re=search_result
>>> 
>>> Main app interface: the first criticism i have is the fact that all
>>> navigation has to be acomplished via a touch screen. Trying on a samsung
>>> galaxy pro, i could not click any of the controls via the keyboard even
>>> though they are recognised as buttons. I could also not dial a phone number
>>> via the keyboard, something i was very very surprised at!
>>> something so simple that's been around for years has been over looked?
>>> this is probably because you have to hover over each item on the screen with
>>> your finger. on to my next point. it took me a while to figure out that you
>>> have to hover over a certain icon for 2 seconds or more until a tone is
>>> heard, then lift your finger to activate it. being used to the double tap
>>> system normally used in android, this came as a little qwerk i could've done
>>> with out, though i can see the logic behind it i guess.
>>> The logic being cut out the need to tap the icon twice and risk hitting
>>> another icon while you're at it. Also, i would've liked the ability to turn
>>> off the dog barking sound when the app is launched, and every time you
>>> return to the home screen from outside the app. nothing against guide dogs,
>>> but it could be a bit of an embarrassment in public places!
>>> Also, my phone really started lagging, something its never done with other
>>> applications no matter how many i've had installed at any one time. while
>>> i'm writing this, the phone's completely crashed, i'll go on to the apps
>>> when it reboots.
>>> 
>>> On to the apps:
>>> 
>>> Now my battery's back in and the thing's booted, by default, you can try
>>> out all the apps in the trial. i liked the fact you can adjust screen
>>> contrast/colours, and also the simplicity of the interface. there needs
>>> to be more user input in to what can be configured/added for the price,
>>> i can see this being aimed at a minority market relating specifically to
>>> the elderly or motor impaired.
>>> 
>>> I did not like the fact that the volume rocker is taken over by the
>>> software. there are meant to be 3 pages, each page containing the
>>> various apps in various catagories. The volume rocker, instead of
>>> allowing you to alter the volume of the app in realtime cycles through
>>> the various pages. it also appears to unlock the phone when its been
>>> locked, something which i wasn't too impressed with. on android, its
>>> standard practis that all buttons are locked and the power button plus
>>> jesture is used to unlock. page1 has your standard apps, messaging
>>> dialer etc, page 2 goes on to OCR, colour recognition etc, page 3 is
>>> thankfully nothing rood, its your lifestile apps containing twitter,
>>> audio book services, talking newspapers etc. I would've apreciated it if
>>> the developers had enabled scroling so you could scrole to page 2/3, or
>>> again provided a setting to switch between various modes for various
>>> functions i.e the ability to turn things on and off, or use alternative
>>> jestures for commands.
>>> 
>>> I am going to be using the software over the next 2 weeks, so may post
>>> further findings. Also if people request, i may consider doing an audio
>>> demo all be it opinionated giving each app a chance, to save people
>>> installing it. I would also have liked to see tighter integration with
>>> google maps. At the moment, yes you can find out where your nearest bus
>>> stop is, taxi information, but you don't appear to be able to send these
>>> to google maps to navigate to the destination in mind.
>>> 
>>> The voice applications also appear, or may rely on the internet. I
>>> haven't tested the application offline yet with no internet connection,
>>> but suspect that because of past experience, the phone will be sending
>>> what ever you say, dictated text messages, numbers, etc to google's
>>> servers then back to your phone. Any android user using this app may
>>> wish they were on some kind of data plan if this is the case.
>>> 
>>> I have also tried the colour recogniser application. ironically, a
>>> freely available talking colour application from the android market,
>>> Colour ID,  produced better results than their app! Their app just
>>> stated my teashirt colour as black, the colour ID app was kind enough to
>>> be more specific and tell me that it was brownish black, and that the
>>> colour of my door was grey.
>>> 
>>> The OCR app appeared to be doing something, though it requires the user
>>> to have the phone level, i.e as if resting flat on a desk before it'll
>>> scan. this could proove to be an issue if reading a sign/business
>>> information that isn't necessarily on a flat surface. oh dear, where's
>>> the gents? i'm getting desperate now!
>>> 
>>> You can configure settings remotely for georgie via the web, or sight
>>> and sound can do this for you. i'm not comfortable with this approach.
>>> I'd like to know how secure the remote access app used is? is it
>>> encrypted? how safe is user data? Privacy is at risk, what if they can
>>> read your text messages? one user complained that sight and sound or
>>> someone sent him an unsolicited text message because he posted a bad
>>> review! this could be a error/over reaction or mistake  on his part,
>>> but? i've installed this on a handset i'm not bothered about but i'd be
>>> hesitant to install this on a handset i'm using for daily use.
>>> 
>>> I would've liked to see inclusion of an email application, as well as a
>>> web browser of some kind. georgie at present won't support this at
>>> present so you'd have to use talkback to surf the web.
>>> 
>>> I also couldn't find an option to access the rest of the phone's
>>> settings, though i haven't customised it or atempted to unlock advanced
>>> settings if any are available. apparently you can control what the user
>>> can do on the phone and provide/limit access to certain functions, so
>>> we'll see if in the next few days i unlock this supposed functionality.
>>> An option to access the android market or the app draw would've been
>>> nice, though again this doesn't appear to be their aim. their aim
>>> appears to be make the phone as simple as possible for a basic user, and
>>> that's it. for a hefty price tag! The app also froze, and i received a
>>> force close message on screen informing me that georgie had terminated.
>>> i then had to reactivate it via my home button. that, by the way was
>>> when i tried to access the georgie news option. this option is meant to
>>> provide you with the latest updates from the world of georgie, i have
>>> visions of them providing georgie with his own personal blog! there are
>>> after all pages on facebook for pets. nothing wrong with that of
>>> course... but? anyway back to the point.
>>> 
>>> And now on to my final point. the contacts app, call/phone app,
>>> messaging app, colour recogniser app, and even the OCR app using google
>>> goggles all have free alternatives. Google maps are a lot better now and
>>> its becoming easier to find your location, to navigate to places, to
>>> find local places of interest, and its all free! even if you do
>>> pourchase mobile accessibility, at least you can use it outside its own
>>> homescreen if you wish! What would then prompt me to buy this. I would
>>> buy it if i had a really basic android user in mind, though i'd first
>>> try my very hardest to go the free/lower cost  root not because i'm
>>> stingy, but a lot of the time people don't have money to burn and also
>>> there are apps out there that do the job. the eyes free shell home
>>> screen is perfectly customisable and allows you to make things as simple
>>> as they could be for someone by adding/removing the apps the user has
>>> access to. Mobile accessibility is basic enough for most people. Also,
>>> if my client just wanted a basic phone, basic second hand and brand new
>>> nokia symbian phones abound on the internet. the haven phone could also
>>> be imported to the UK, and i saw a phone that spoke the numbers dialed
>>> for £15 in tesco the other day. The only reason i would personally spend
>>> any money on this application is the OCR capability, and possibly the
>>> audio book/talking newspaper ability though at that price, do we get a
>>> free subscription to the services in question? perhaps we should?
>>> 
>>> the pricing model is also unclear. they state that £150 will get you the
>>> default apps. now as far as i know, that's just the basic apps, dialer,
>>> messaging, contacts, georgie news and help, the phone dialer, and the
>>> call log. mobile accessibility offers all this and more for almost a
>>> third of the price! yes MA isn't perfect but that's not the point, who
>>> is? £25 extra each for the lifestile and communications apps doesn't net
>>> you much. the audio books app, the camera app, again a free alternative
>>> available, OCR, tweet by voice, ask any question by voice anyone ever
>>> heard of freely available jeanie? talking newspapers, podcasts, and lets
>>> not forget the amazing voice blog. If anyone wants to hear me singing in
>>> the shower, please let me know! the potential is amazing isn't it? the
>>> sarcasm is partly intentional, sorry i'll stop it now...
>>> 
>>> So, from this hotchpotch email, a conclusion: the app is very over
>>> priced, even code factory who i expected to charge a lot more for their
>>> app haven't charged much at all, its even available stripped down in the
>>> US for free. If users have free alternatives and are only paying for
>>> simplicity which can be achieved with selection of a few choice free/low
>>> paid apps, what will compell people to buy this? now if they'd included
>>> a turn by turn navigation aid like wayfinder for symbian if anyone
>>> remembers that, that would've impressed me. I really hope that the
>>> company does well, though there's still a long way to go. I hope it does
>>> not go the same way as thunder i.e get knocked out by an open source,
>>> free!  effort like NVDA. I never really managed to achieve much with the
>>> thunder screen reader, it was rather embarrassing when atempting to demo
>>> it as part of training a few years ago it kept crashing. we couldn't
>>> even get it to read out word documents or the web in a satisfactory manner.
>>> 
>>> As i have already said the opinions i express above are just based on
>>> early findings. A lot could change over the next 2 weeks. I may end up
>>> loving? georgie, though i doubt i'll be paying for it. If i've been
>>> harsh on the developers, it wasn't intentional. the georgie app only has
>>> a 2.2 star rating on the play store, and the majority of the reviews are
>>> from those that are experiencing frustration using the application. some
>>> can't get it to work though this could be user error. i wonder how many
>>> phones they tested this on?
>>> 
>>> From a business standpoint, if you set the right price people will buy
>>> your product, set it too high and they'll turn to other sollutions. £300
>>> with a handset included? a Nokia C5 with talks costs £100, a basic
>>> handset like the sony experia pro with icecream sandwitch which is
>>> totally accessible would only cost £180 at the most.
>>> 
>>> finally, i'd like to round things off by quoting a comment from someone
>>> called justin on the eyes-free list with which i agree. i hope you don't
>>> mind me quoting you justin, though i don't know you personally.
>>> 
>>> Justin <justinmacleod@xxxxxxxxxxx> Aug 01 10:06PM +0100
>>> 
>>> That's what I think is so scandalous. They are indeed targeting older people
>>> and those who are less up to speed with computers, those who don't know
>>> better or those that can't, for whatever reason, cope with the free, cheeper
>>> alternative that actually does more. Why should they have to pay more for
>>> less?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, it would be great to hear people's experiences. If i'm wrong
>>> about anything in this email, i'll gladly stand corrected and i'm still
>>> giving georgie a fair chance. People are also welcome to write to me off
>>> list,
>>> 
>>> mobeeniqbal@xxxxxxxxx
>>> 
>>> is where you'll find me. Its taken the best part of 2 hours to write
>>> this, anyone for a cup of tea?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for reading,
>>> 
>>> Mo.
>>> 
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