Damon - Benjamin nicely describes definition lists their purpose and the way, in common with most other html tags they are regularly miss used. Jaws has long failed to correctly support definition lists. Something I for one flagged with FS as far back as version 5 if not earlier but which they have done nothing about - obviously not headline grabbing enough. It is this failure of support which results in the quirky jfw output when within dl lists rather than poor implementation of the tag itself all be it that the tag is being used not for the purpose for which it were intended. =20 Adrian Higginbotham Project manager, Standards British Educational Communications and Technology Agency - BECTA Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994. Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/ BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ=20 -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: 30 November 2006 08:48 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: definition list in JAWS HTML On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 07:45 +0000, Damon wrote: > I keep seeing the [following] on web pages in jaws. can someone clear=20 > up for me what it means or what particular bit of HTML or web coding=20 > it's responding to. > When jaws says: Definition list of 1 items ... why is that?=20 When JAWS says definition list it means it has come across a DL element in the HTML code. The proper meaning of a DL is defined by the HTML 4.01 specification. To quote: > Definition lists vary only slightly from other types of lists in that=20 > list items consist of two parts: a term and a description. The term is > given by the DT element and is restricted to inline content. The=20 > description is given with a DD element that contains block-level=20 > content. [...] Another application of DL, for example, is for marking=20 > up dialogues, with each DT naming a speaker, and each DD containing=20 > his or her words. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 One item in a definition list might define a single definition for two terms in the sense of two different spellings, or multiple definitions for a single term, or both at the same time. When you hear "Definition list of 1 items" that means there is only one item in this sense. Web designer opinion has long been divided over whether DL should be reserved for definitions of terms (as the name might suggested) or used for more general name-and-value pairings, or item-and-description pairings, as the specification's description might suggest. In general, definition lists cannot be assumed to be a list of dictionary definitions. The first web page ever written used a definition list to list links to resources and their descriptions. > As an example, it occurs on the main BBC news page www.bbc.co.uk/news/ Turning to the BBC News page, I think your confusion is (in my opinion) the product of bad design. With JavaScript enabled, those definition lists are used as an interface to unhide or hide again three other ordinary lists: "VIDEO AND AUDIO NEWS", "TV AND RADIO PROGRAMMES", and "MOST POPULAR VIDEO AND AUDIO". With JavaScript enabled, each definition list contains a single item containing a term such as "VIDEO AND AUDIO NEWS" defined by a definition of "SHOW" or "HIDE", which you can click to show or hide the ordinary list in question. Unfortunately, with JavaScript disabled, the definition lists and terms are still there, but the definitions "SHOW" or "HIDE" are not. Effectively, what you're hearing is not sane markup but the skeleton of an interface designed for those with JavaScript enabled. If this were well designed, they would be dynamically replacing markup suitable without JavaScript (such as a simple heading) with markup suitable with JavaScript, rather than simply adding in the words SHOW and HIDE. If you (or anyone else) find the BBC News website inaccessible in any way you may wish to report your experience as a technical problem to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/feedback/default.stm In my limited experience, the BBC are quite good at responding to such technical problems. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3Dunsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=3Dfaq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq