[access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re: COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST

  • From: "Spring.flower" <spring.flower@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:38:03 -0000

I never feel awkward having to have the assistant show me where to sign.  I 
hold the pen as if I'm to write and the assistant will guide it to the place 
where i have to sign, the delivery guys that way too when we have parcels 
delivered when I've been shopping online!!

As for not knowing the pen isn't working, i can tell that, there's more of a 
drag when it doesn't work.

Trace

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Damon" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re: 
COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST


I totally understand how some of the pin machines might be a little fiddly
if a user has bad sensitivity in their fingers ... but I've got to say I
think they're fantastic! I've never had a problem. And I love not really
having to ask for help from embarrassed shop assistants to find the
signature line on a document, using biros that I'm not aware don't work, and
trying to find space on crowded counters to put the docket on so I can sign
it.

And the card doesn't leave me! I sometimes don't quite know where to put it,
it's machine dependent, but this outweighs the above problems for me plus
the security angle of me keeping it near to me is good.

And ya know what, I've not once had someone ask me if I can do chip and pin.
They just hand me the device or point me at where it is if I haven't already
found it, they're usually so prominent.

...Damon























----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Spring.flower" <spring.flower@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:44 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re:
COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST


> Mum and myself use chip and signature cards as neither of us like the pin
> number idea, mum was in a shop once and nearly came to blows with a member
> of staff who insisted you had to put in the pin and couldn't sign under
> any
> circumstances, come hell or high water and all that.  Got quite a shock
> when
> the machine told them she could sign.
>
> Trace
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Emma Wright" <emmajane9@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:38 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: chip and pin, cash machines and the likeRe: Re:
> COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING BY POST
>
>
> Graham,
>
> I just reread your post and realised I didn't answer the question
> about what I do instead of chip and pin.  My bank have arranged for me
> to have two cards for each account - one with a pin number for the
> cashpoint, and one without for using in shops.  It is called a chip
> and signature card and it tells the machine that you need to sign.  It
> always surprises assistants when I use it and they tend to think the
> machine is broken until I explain!  I had one shop tell they couldn't
> accept a signature, but I explained my situation to the manager (after
> having to tell him I can't show him a driving licence as proof of ID
> they don't let blind people drive...) and he let me have my goods.  I
> avoid that shop now though!
>
> On 14/02/07, Emma Wright <emmajane9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Graham,
>>
>> I can use my local cash machine as my fianc=E9 has shown me how to do
>> it, however, I having tried it I have four problems with chip and pin.
>>  1) Each machine is different and it is very hard to work out where to
>> put the card e.g top, bottom, side, which way around. ) Each machine
>> goes through a different order of what you need to do, some you need
>> to press enter to confirm an amount, then enter your pin, some you
>> enter your pin only.  And you often have to wait while it is
>> processing without knowing when the machine is ready for you to press
>> the next button. 3) The buttons do not have any audio feedback (unlike
>> my local cashpoint) so you can't be sure if they have been pressed
>> hard enough, or at all.  4) Some of the machines have buttons which
>> are made of latex, which I am allergic to and avoid at all costs!  The
>> former three could have been addressed by making machines universally
>> similar (i.e. the card always goes in the bottom of the machine with
>> the chip - which you can feel - towards you and facing up), having the
>> software universal so you always get asked the same questions (or of
>> course it could speak what it wants you to enter but that isn't ever
>> going to happen) and having the buttons beep when you press them.
>> It's a shame it didn't happen.
>>
>> I can't use the paying in machine in my local branch either as the
>> numbers are a flat panel with pictures rather than being individually
>> raised buttons.  Again, poor design.
>>
>> It doesn't help that I don't have great feeling in my fingers and
>> often can't feel the raised dot of the 5.
>>
>> See I'm stuffed!
>>
>> Emma
>>
>> On 14/02/07, Graham Page <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Hi emma.
>> >
>> > Could I ask why you can't use chip and pin?  Is it due to physical
>> > reas=
> ons
>> > such as poor feeling in your hands or no hands at all or is it just a
>> > c=
> ase
>> > of never having been shown?
>> >
>> > I asked this because I met a visually impaired person through work
>> > rece=
> ntly
>> > who could not use chip an pin technology for no good reason than not
>> > be=
> ing
>> > shown.
>> >
>> > To see what would happen, I tried an experiment.  I had to pay money
>> > in=
> to
>> > the natwest recently by cheque and while doing this I asked the
>> > assista=
> nt
>> > about this and was told that you just used the number pad though all
>> > ar=
> e
>> > slightly different.  This was probably the assistant just trying to
>> > use=
> her
>> > own initiative.  From my experience she is partly right though buttons
>> > =
> are
>> > generally in the same places.  I find that enter is usually bottom
>> > righ=
> t and
>> > there is generally a dot or feelable marker on 5.
>> >
>> > If for whatever reason you cannot physically use your hands to access
>> > t=
> he
>> > buttons, is there allowance made in shops for you to sign instead?
>> >
>> > Using chip and pin or using your local cash point machine
>> > independently=
> is
>> > something rehab officers could help all of us to do, but I suppose
>> > they=
> are
>> > often stretched and involved with giving people the confidence to
>> > perfo=
> rm
>> > more basic tasks such as preparing food to eat etc, which are all
>> > particularly important to people who are losing or have just lost their
>> > sight. other things tend to get just left by the wayside because of
>> > lac=
> k of
>> > time and personell I suppose.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Graham
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Emma Wright" <emmajane9@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:41 PM
>> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: COUNCIL POLICY TO WAIVE SIGNATURE WHEN VOTING
>> > =
> BY
>> > POST
>> >
>> >
>> > I agree with that, I Have to sign my back card so why not a form for
>> > the council? However, I do worry as I know my signature varies a lot
>> > and its never been queried, even though I can't use chip and pin.  I
>> > guess they see the white stick and realise I might have trouble - I
>> > just hope that if my card gets stolen it isn't by someone else who
>> > looks similarly vulnerable!
>> >
>> > Emma
>> >
>> > On 14/02/07, Carol Pearson <carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > We've recently completed forms, together with our signatures, as our
>> > > Council
>> > > wished to introduce new regulations regarding postal voting.  They
>> > > st=
> ate
>> > > that they wished to know if our signature differed each time and
>> > > that=
> , if
>> > > so, an exemption from signing may be in order.
>> > >
>> > > After somewhat of an uphill route (with all the running on our
>> > > part),=
> we
>> > > have established that they have looked at our signatures and decided
>> > > =
> to
>> > > send
>> > > us Waiver Forms.
>> > >
>> > > I am really just seeking views of others on list as to whether you
>> > > fe=
> el
>> > > it's
>> > > best to have your own signature (which friends are sure cannot be
>> > > reproduced) or to have such a "waiver" so that no signature is
>> > > requir=
> ed.
>> > >
>> > > I rather feel, after all, that if banks accept our signatures and
>> > > don=
> 't
>> > > make
>> > > a fuss, the Council should do likewise.
>> > >
>> > > Any comments are welcome - on or off list.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Carol
>> > > carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > >
>> > >
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Emma Jane Wright
>> > School of Sociology and Social Policy
>> > University of Nottingham
>> >
>> > emmajane9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> > www.accessingmaterials.org.uk
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>> >
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>>
>> --
>> Emma Jane Wright
>> School of Sociology and Social Policy
>> University of Nottingham
>>
>> emmajane9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> www.accessingmaterials.org.uk
>>
>
>
> --=20
> Emma Jane Wright
> School of Sociology and Social Policy
> University of Nottingham
>
> emmajane9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> www.accessingmaterials.org.uk
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