Hi Steve,
Yes, that's how the Equality Act works. Disability discrimination discriminates
against a person because of the impacts of their own impairment, not just
because of the fact that they are disabled. So, an older person who is not yet
online will need a different solution from a person of working age who is, and
so on. And as we have read, another part of the bank is taking all this in
their stride.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 27 November 2015 17:12
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman
Hi Clive,
Yes, but my point is, we're only discussing our needs as Braille users.
Then you have audio, then possibly Moon, then I begin to feel sorry for the
banks with all these different "accessible" formats.
I personally do all my banking online now, download the PDF and just read it.
Not a Braille statement in sight.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 27 November 2015 16:49
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman
Hi Steve,
There's a world of difference between single versus double-sided, effected by a
minor tweak to a setting on the embosser, or an extra page throw, as George
suggested at the start of the discussion, and bringing moon and jumbo into the
argument, where they'd probably require purchasing of new kit and so on. You
would need a sledgehammer to crack the nuts you've thrown into the bowl.
Single-sided braille only takes a nutcracker.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 27 November 2015 16:41
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman
Hi Clive,
But where do we stop, Single or double? Jumbo or regular? Moon statements?
I am beginning to feel sorry for the banks.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 27 November 2015 15:50
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman
Hi Alex,
That argument doesn't hold water. Derek may be the only person who has raised
the issue, but is there evidence that others wouldn't say yes to single-sided
braille if given the choice.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Alex Stone
Sent: 27 November 2015 15:44
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman
Because that person is you Derek
On 27/11/2015 15:36, Derek Hornby wrote:
How do we know just one customer prefers it?
What about those that choose grade 1 Braille?
What about those that have chosen chip and signature!
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Alex Stone
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 3:31 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Steve, even so, just because it can be done, why should either the
bank or transcriber be forced to do such a thing just because one
customer prefers it?
On 27/11/2015 15:17, Steve Nutt wrote:
Hi Derek,transcriber, the
While it is not difficult for me to do, it depends on the
software they use, etc. Also, it would mean another flag that thebank
would have to hold on your records.Behalf Of
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Derek HornbyOmbudsman
Sent: 27 November 2015 14:49
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
But Steve, I thought you agreed that what I was asking for isn'tOmbudsman
difficult to do.
Remember the bank has said if they could do it they would happily
do it.
So they still have-not said why cannot do it.
and the quote you have seen in another message, was from RNIB
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 2:10 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman
Hi,
I happen to agree with that finding.
All the best
Steve
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 10:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] braille statements RNIB sides with the
Hi Alldo
Regarding Braille bank statements.
here is more comment from the ombudsman.
Notice that RNIB supports the bank?
Also the bank has still failed to give a reason, as to why they
cannot do Braille on both saides of paper.
Few weeks ago they were saying if they could, they would happily
it!produce
Now quote from bank, to the ombudsman.
"As previously discussed to you on the telephone we do not offer any
customer bank statements single sided. All statements that we
included Braille are sent double sided and this is the way thatHornby
statement production system works.
"We have discussed this matter with the Royal Institute of Blind
People and they have provided the below to our Diversity Manager Dear
Neil, further to your telcon with Steve Tyler this morning, please
find below quote from Steve in this respect.
Reference: Complaint by Derek Hornby re Duplex Braille Statements
It is RNIB's view that the business decision taken by HSBC regarding
the production of bank statements in Duplex form (Braille on both
sides
of the paper) is a perfectly accessible means of delivering
this
information to regular Braille reading clients. Although Mr
mayhighly
have preferences around his ideal form of statements, as with all
business decisions, individual preferences and especially
specific ones cannot be delivered upon when handling mass producedprocesses
or template products. We believe that although he may have
a preference, double sided Braille is a standard and uniform
means
by which Braille is produced and has no bearing on the actual
accessibility of the product other than a stated preference.
Customers continually express preferences and were there to be an
overwhelming response, then clearly we would need to review
and would recommend that to HSBC.this
As it stands, given the ubiquitous nature of Braille produced in
standard fashion, as well as the environmental impact of reduced** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
usage
of paper and consequent bulk of Braille, we believe this to be a
perfectly sound business decision by the bank.
regards
Helena Suprun
PA to Head of Solutions, Strategy and Planning (Steve Tyler) Royal
National Institute of Blind People (RNIB)
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