[access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman

  • From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 22:01:56 -0000

Hi George

yes it's very strange.
I have two accounts and both send me a4 size Braille on both
sides.


Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 9:18 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman

Hi James,



I'm confused too, as I'm sure are many others.



You Bank with HSBC - Derek Banks with HSBC.



So how come you get single-sided statements and Derek gets
double-sided?



George



-----Original Message-----

From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of James English

Sent: Friday, 27 November 2015 16:49

To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the
Ombudsman



Uhm...I'm confused.



I just got my bank statement through today.

It was from hsbc.

It was on single-sided braille.

As it has been for my entire time using the bank.



On 11/27/15, Steve Nutt <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Clive,



But where do we stop, Single or double? Jumbo or regular? Moon

statements? I am beginning to feel sorry for the banks.



All the best



Steve



Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk





-----Original Message-----

From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: 27 November 2015 15:50

To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the

Ombudsman



Hi Alex,



That argument doesn't hold water. Derek may be the only person who
has

raised the issue, but is there evidence that others wouldn't say yes


to single-sided braille if given the choice.



Best,

Clive







-----Original Message-----

From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of Alex Stone

Sent: 27 November 2015 15:44

To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the

Ombudsman



Because that person is you Derek



On 27/11/2015 15:36, Derek Hornby wrote:

How do we know just one customer prefers it?



What about those that choose grade 1 Braille?



What about those that have chosen chip and signature!

-----Original Message-----

From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of Alex Stone

Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 3:31 PM

To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the

Ombudsman



Steve, even so, just because it can be done, why should either the

bank or transcriber be forced to do such a thing just because one

customer prefers it?



On 27/11/2015 15:17, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Derek,



While it is not difficult for me to do, it depends on the

transcriber, the

software they use, etc. Also, it would mean another flag that the

bank

would have to hold on your records.



All the best



Steve



Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk



-----Original Message-----

From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of

Derek Hornby

Sent: 27 November 2015 14:49

To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the

Ombudsman

But Steve, I thought you agreed that what I was asking for isn't


difficult to do.



Remember the bank has said if they could do it they would
happily

do it.



So they still have-not said why cannot do it.



and the quote you have seen in another message, was from RNIB







Derek

-----Original Message-----

From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of Steve Nutt

Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 2:10 PM

To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the

Ombudsman



Hi,



I happen to agree with that finding.



All the best



Steve



Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk





-----Original Message-----

From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf Of Derek Hornby

Sent: 27 November 2015 10:20

To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [access-uk] braille statements RNIB sides with the

Ombudsman

Hi All

Regarding Braille bank statements.



here is more comment from the ombudsman.

Notice that RNIB supports the bank?

Also the bank has still failed to give a reason, as to why they


cannot do Braille on both saides of paper.

Few weeks ago they were saying if they could, they would happily

do

it!



Now quote from bank, to the ombudsman.





"As previously discussed to you on the telephone we do not offer
any

customer bank statements single sided. All statements that we

produce

included Braille are sent double sided and this is the way that

statement production system works.



"We have discussed this matter with the Royal Institute of Blind

People and they have provided the below to our Diversity Manager

Dear Neil, further to your telcon with Steve Tyler this morning,

please find below quote from Steve in this respect.





Reference: Complaint by Derek Hornby re Duplex Braille Statements



It is RNIB's view that the business decision taken by HSBC
regarding

the production of bank statements in Duplex form (Braille on
both

sides

of the paper) is a perfectly accessible means of
delivering

this

information to regular Braille reading clients. Although Mr

Hornby

may

have preferences around his ideal form of statements, as with
all

business decisions, individual preferences and
especially

highly

specific ones cannot be delivered upon when handling mass
produced

or template products. We believe that although he may have



a preference, double sided Braille is a
standard and uniform

means

by which Braille is produced and has no bearing on the actual

accessibility of the product other than a stated preference.



Customers continually express preferences and were there to be an

overwhelming response, then clearly we would need to review

processes

and would recommend that to HSBC.

As it stands, given the ubiquitous nature of Braille produced in

this

standard fashion, as well as the environmental impact of
reduced

usage

of paper and consequent bulk of Braille, we believe this to be
a

perfectly sound business decision by the bank.



regards

Helena Suprun

PA to Head of Solutions, Strategy and Planning (Steve Tyler) Royal


National Institute of Blind People (RNIB)



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