[access-uk] Re: braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman

  • From: Alex Stone <alex.stone@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 21:44:31 +0000

Ray, since there's no case law, if you have the money you can fight for whatever the hell you like.

On 27/11/2015 21:26, Mike Ray wrote:

The idea you could fight for single-sided Braille on the grounds of
discrimination is utter crap. You might as well say a sighted person
could fight for their bank statements to be delivered on pink paper with
lovely yellow flowers on it.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people
some of the time. Replace the word 'fool' with 'please' in this instance.

I'd quite like Lisa Tarbuck to come to my house and read my statements
to me naked but it aint gonna happen any time soon.

Get real. Single-sided is a preference, not a need. And no body or
institution can provide for every preference.



On 27/11/2015 10:35, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hi Derek and all,

I've noteiced recently atendancy for the RNIB to produce statements, which have
always been double-sided, in loose leaf form. That is, no binding, no treasury
tags, no staples. I find double-sided braille more fiddly to manage at 'page
turn' than single-sided. Frankly, I'm not surprised that the RNIB came down on
the side of the bank and the ombudsman. I notice also the repeated use of the
word 'preference'. What evidence would you have to support the opposing view,
that this is a need and not a preference.

If this had been taken down the discrimination route, rather than the general
complaints process, certain questions would have needed to be asked which may
have been overlooked in this instance. For example, what do other banks do? If
you really want or need single-sided Braille (whichever is the case), and it
means that much to you, you could vote with your feet. Natwest bank statements
are all single-sided, so what's all this about duplex being quote industry
standard quote. And, as George has said, it's not rocket science.

Best,
Clive





-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 27 November 2015 10:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] braille statements RNIB sides with the Ombudsman

Hi All
Regarding Braille bank statements.

here is more comment from the ombudsman.
Notice that RNIB supports the bank?
Also the bank has still failed to give a reason, as to why they cannot do
Braille on both saides of paper.
Few weeks ago they were saying if they could, they would happily do it!

Now quote from bank, to the ombudsman.


"As previously discussed to you on the telephone we do not offer any customer
bank statements single sided. All statements that we produce included Braille are
sent double sided and this is the way that statement production system works.

"We have discussed this matter with the Royal Institute of Blind People and
they have provided the below to our Diversity Manager Dear Neil, further to your
telcon with Steve Tyler this morning, please find below quote from Steve in this
respect.


Reference: Complaint by Derek Hornby re Duplex Braille Statements

It is RNIB's view that the business decision taken by HSBC regarding
the production of bank statements in Duplex form (Braille on both
sides
of the paper) is a perfectly accessible means of delivering
this
information to regular Braille reading clients. Although Mr Hornby
may
have preferences around his ideal form of statements, as with all
business decisions, individual preferences and especially highly
specific ones cannot be delivered upon when handling mass produced
or template products. We believe that although he may have

a preference, double sided Braille is a standard and uniform
means
by which Braille is produced and has no bearing on the actual
accessibility of the product other than a stated preference.

Customers continually express preferences and were there to be an
overwhelming response, then clearly we would need to review processes
and would recommend that to HSBC.
As it stands, given the ubiquitous nature of Braille produced in this
standard fashion, as well as the environmental impact of reduced
usage
of paper and consequent bulk of Braille, we believe this to be a
perfectly sound business decision by the bank.

regards
Helena Suprun
PA to Head of Solutions, Strategy and Planning (Steve Tyler)
Royal National Institute of Blind People (RNIB)

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