well said Richard.
On 11 Nov 2015, at 19:50, Richard Godfrey-McKay** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
<lists.godfrey-mckay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Derek, Based on what you say, it seems possible to me that it's a
"reasonable adjustment" to ask the bank to make.
I don't think that the Financial Ombudsman was the appropriate person to
hear this complaint, as, if anything, it's basically one of discrimination.
Richard
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Telephone: 01738-445 880
Mobile: 07791 452 593
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 11 November 2015 19:19
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille from HSBC technical issues
Hi Richard
I find reading on one side of a page easier because I easily get pages mixed
up. So I find when Braille is on one side, it's easier for me not to have
to lift each page up, and turn over.
If Braille is on both side, I have to read a page,
turn it over, then read, then put it aside for next one.
But if Braille on one side, there is just read a page, put is aside, read
next one etc no need to turn it over.
The main part of my complaint with bank is that they will not give a
reason, as to why Braille on one side is not possible. They say if it was
possible they would happily do it for me, but they won't give a reason
why not possible now.
Also I find the dots are usually easier to read when Braille on one side
of page.
If I read a Braille book it's not a big issue for me to misread.
But a document like a bank statement, it's very important to be able to
read easily, the whole details.
I think it's unreasonable for the bank to have this One size fits all,
attitude for Braille on one side.
After all, they allow blind people a choice chip and PIN
or chip and signature. They accept some blind people
prefer chip and signature, so why not accept some of us prefer Braille
in a certain way.
They even allow a choice for grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
So if they can allow a choice for grade 1 or grade 2 why not a choice for
Braille on one side.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 5:41 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille from HSBC technical issues
Derek, Remind me, please, why you need single-sided?
Richard
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Telephone: 01738-445 880
Mobile: 07791 452 593
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 11 November 2015 15:54
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille from HSBC technical issues
There is a logic to your argument, Derek, but when push comes to shove, the
Bank is acting within the termns of the law; it is making reasonable
adjustment.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 11 November 2015 14:25
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille from HSBC technical issues
Steve
A person that is only blind, i.e. no other disability, is allowed to
choose chip signature, even though that same blind person is happy to use
a mobile phone key pad.
So, is that person using preference!
The point is, I find reading a statement easier when it's one side of
page. Just same as saying some people find chip and signature easier. I do
not tell them they are wrong to make that choice.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Tyler, Steve
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 1:36 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille from HSBC technical issues
Derek.
I am not in a position to start a discussion about this (I'm away at
present) but just to note: if this is a preference on your part rather than
a requirement then I think the bank can justify it's position in that you
receive information in a format you can access, albeit not in a form you
would prefer (ie,single sided); that, from a duties perspective, I would
suggest is a nice to have rather than a requirement. In the same way,
people may prefer all kinds of ways in which their statements, for example,
are laid out; a bank or any one else will make a decision based on optimal
access for most people - what it won't do is deliver according to
preferences in every conceivable permutation.
There are exceptions to everything but as a rule I'd say a braille reader
can read braille when printed on both sides of the paper.
Depending on your reasons for arguing the case, you may find yourself in the
position of having to deliver some evidence for your position - I think that
would be difficult to do.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 11 November 2015 11:38
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille from HSBC technical issues
Notice they don't want to consult
with George, or Steven Tyler.
Also they say
"don't have the option to print Braille statements on one side"
But they do have the option.
Seems Ombudsman believes, what the bank says is true.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Shaun O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 11:25 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille from HSBC technical issues
That reads to me like a poor excuse for allowing companies to put profits
over and above the needs of people who have a particular access requirekent
in arder to make effective use of said services.
I don't read braille but anyone who reads braille will know that braille on
both sides of a sheet can be problematic due to bleed through caused by the
embossing process.
although havning said that, this is a matter the ombusman may not be
familiar with and I dare say HSBC are either not aware or don't care.
and of course there is that rather knotty question of what the legal
definition of "reasonable adjustment" means.
eND OF RANT..
ATB
Shaun
On 11/11/2015 11:14, Derek Hornby wrote:statements
The Ombudsman has sided with bank!
See below
Quote
"I'm not disputing that there is an option to have Braille
printed on one side. What I was trying to explain is that HSBCone
unfortunately don't have the option to print Braille statements on
side - as this is what it told me. HSBC is required to makereasonable
adjustments to allow its customers to use its services in the sameway
aseveryone
else. Although I appreciate you'd prefer to have your bankstatements
printed on one side, I can't say HSBC must fulfil your individual
preference. The change HSBC has made with its Braille services in my
opinion is reasonable.information,
I appreciate you think HSBC have provided me mis-leading
but I don't have any reasons to doubt what they've said. You've also
disagreed with the idea that HSBC do this to cut down on paper.
You've said non-Braille statements have general information on the
back of each page, therefore these statements are one sided. I
appreciate the point you've made here, however this is HSBC's choice
and it may have a business need to do this.don't
Thank you for letting me know that you're happy for me to speak to
your sister, George Bell, or Steve Tyler. But I don't think it is
necessary for me to speak to them as I feel I have understood your
complaint from what you have told me and our service already.
Unfortunately my opinion on your complaint remains the same as I
think HSBC have made unreasonable changes to its Braille services.is
I would also like to explain that as a service we try to resolve
consumer-business disputes informally. We are not here to punish
businesses or to tell them what to do. We have no such power as it
the role of the Financial Conduct Authority to regulate thisindustry.
I hope the above has been clear and helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Salma Begum-Ali
adjudicator | Financial Ombudsman Service
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