I haven't wanted to step into this rather fraught arena, however...
I can see the frustration of having to trawl through lots of extra dots to get
to the information I actually want. However, and I'm only speaking for myself
now, and perhaps this won't be anyone else's view, but I think I would have
benefited both from full capitalisation when learning and reading Braille when
growing up, and greater use of bold, italics, underline etc.
The correct use of capitalisation is really important, but if your not
consistently seeing where they are put, how are you supposed to remember? I
think this is particularly important if you've been blind from a very young age
and so had no experience of print. Memory is intimately connected with vision,
sometimes I am able to create a picture of the shape of a Braille word in my
head, which helps in reminding me how it is spelt. Imagine how bad my spelling
would be if I didn't have that. (smile) But if you're not seeing, or feeling it
on a day to day basis I think it's going to be hard to remember.
Similarly with Italics etc., if you don't see them regularly used, you don't
build up an idea of when they should be used. I only learnt recently that it
was the norm to italicise the names of Newspapers when referring to them in
written text.
So, I think particularly for children learning Braille, the more support they
are given in terms of understanding capitalisation, and all the various
formatting and printing types, the better.
When I participated in the RNIB UEB survey I really didn't see much difference
in the sample text they sent out. Change is always difficult. I remember when
the old contraction for "God" (Dot5,G) was removed. For a while I vocally
complained every time I came across "God". I got used to it.
But more than that, if it makes it easier to exchange Braille in English across
the world, particularly getting it to countries which don't have our technical
advantages and so have fewer Braille books, then it will be worth it.
Yusuf
I've set up a FundMe account to help cover the ongoing costs of my PhD. I'd be
very grateful if you'd consider donating. Thank you!
https://www.gofundme.com/lhj928
Why not follow me on Twitter at:
yusuf_oy
Facebook:
/yusuf.osman.188
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 27 July 2015 11:13
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hi Dave,
The problem I have with it is that I agree in principle, but unlike print
attributes, you cannot change the shape of the letter in Braille. Instead, you
have to add more characters to the original character. Foreign accents take two
characters before you get to the letter, for example, making the letter E top
heavy when preceeded by dots four-five then dots 1-4-6, for example, and in a
bold italicised word with an initial capital, the word itself feels swollen. So
we come back to George's original point - let's not have publishers throwing in
everything but the kitchen sink just because they can, if it would serve no
real benefit to the reader to do so.
Best,
Clive
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Dave Sheridan
Sent: 24 July 2015 23:30
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hi Alison
Having worked in education all my life as a teacher and for the last 15 years
of this as a braille teacher I disagree with you. I'm in no doubt that the
capital indicator and others you speak of will be of benefit to children using
braille in schools and colleges. I do accept that for some children they will
cause more confusion than to be of help but as teachers we are able adjust the
learning programme for each individual student.
All the best from Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On 24 Jul 2015, at 19:59, CJ &AA MAY <chrisalismay@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
Dave, I received this document too but it wasn't a consultation. The
decision had already been made.
I think we were invited to comment but unlike an earlier consultation
about
15 years ago, this time we were not in a position to stop EUB being
introduced.
I can see the reasons for introducing UEB, I am just resentful that it
has been imposed upon us. The comparison I quote is all the print
publishers suddenly deciding that all the English-speaking world
should use the same spelling and making a decision that in future all
publications would use the American style of spelling - can you imagine the
uproar!
As a teacher of braille, I would also argue that the changes really
won't make much difference to the ease of learning braille.
Although I will learn to tolerate the changes to abbreviations and
contractions, I am really resentful about the introduction of
capitalisation into adult reading material and all the font indicators
which are of absolutely no benefit to the braille reader.
Moan! Moan! Moan!
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
Sent: 24 July 2015 19:07
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hi Peter and all
Firstly Peter, dismissing the UEB code as rubbish without considering
the reasoning behind its implementation is rash and unfair. Regarding
consultation, all I can say is that as I was in receipt of one braille
publication at the time people were surveyed I received my copy and
was able to participate. I can only guess that those braille readers
receiving braille books from RNIBs library will also have received the
survey document. Add to this word of mouth from one braille reader to
another then I suspect opportunity to participate in the survey was
there for a significant number of braille users. I am in full
agreement with those who have expressed the unnecessary use of
elements of UEB where this is not needed and George is absolutely
correct that there needs to be clear guidance to transcribers
regarding the application of the code according to the text required
to be brailled. So rather than be critical of UEB let's embrace it
but work together so that it better serves the need of the recipients
by letting transcribers know about elements of the braille copy that isn't
fit for purpose.
All the best from Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On 24 Jul 2015, at 11:53, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:change to this rubbish Braille code? I don't read much braille these
I wonder exactly how many Braille readers were involved in the
decision to
days apart from my bank statements, and , fortunately, they are still
produced in standard english Braille.
decide when they give the full works, such as the braille simbols for
-----Original Message----- From: Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:05 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hello all,
Though I'm not wholly against the UEB, I do think publishers need to
bold, italics, underline, and when this would serve no other purpose
than to slow the reader down. If I'm studying, and need to know how to
present my written work, I would want the whole code, but why do I
need to be bothered with the splurge of dots around every other word
when I'm reading a biography of my favourite singer or cricketer? I
also wonder how easy it is for people to get their heads round
excessively dotty Braille when, say, the sensitivity in their fingers is
limited because of diabetes?
free-form text slots, but surveys often don't include those.
These are the sort of things one sometimes wishes one could say in
Of CJ &AA MAY
Best,
Clive
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:17in which they have been introduced but I'm not going to take part in
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
I don't like the changes and feel quite annoyed about the high-handed
way
this petition because I feel it is too late. I do in actual fact see
the reason behind many of the changes and although I might not like
them, I do accept that in time I will get used to them but I think a
more relevant petition might be to braille publishers for them to use
common sense in that I don't want my publications full of italics,
boldfacing and other symbols which just slow down my reading speed.
I also would prefer my material non-capitalised but I feel thisis just spitting in the wind - the decision has been made and I fear
petition
we will just have to learn to live with it.
AlisonOf Tony Sweeney
my way
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:08they are trying to develop, or for thesis particularly for the blind
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
It's a bit like students and the like looking for feedback on IT
projects
in mind and you never never hear any outcome afterwards.
carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote:
We always like to assist but boy there is a limit to one's patience!
On 24/07/2015 10:00, Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-Derek,
Thanks for this, but we now refuse any petitions because then you
get bombarded with so many messages afterwards. It really got so
sickening and took me some while on occasions to fill them in.
It's a shame really, but there you are, we all have to live within
our means.
Carol P
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby"
<derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:26 PM
Subject: [access-uk] braille changes petition
I thought Braille readers may be interested to take look here:
http://chn.ge/1GD0QEv
It's a petition.
"Rnib: Offer your publications in SEB as well as UEB either
indefinitely or for a grace period.
Offer free UEB conversion courses to long-term Braillists Provide
better learning resources to support conversion from SEB to UEB"
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
