[access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

  • From: <Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:58:19 +0000

They'd have to be careful with stopping Access IT braille version. They could
use it to promote their Online Today project, for instance, It would make no
sense to use an online only publication to encourage people to go online for
the first time, fir example. Access IT's primary target audience is individuals
with sight loss (to use the vernacular), while NB (as it's now called, is
mainly aimed at people who work in the visual impairment field - social workers
and the like - most of whom will have computers in the workplace.

Best,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of CJ
&AA MAY
Sent: 25 July 2015 20:01
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Really? I didn't know that.
Alison


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 25 July 2015 19:31
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

I am surprised Access IT has not stopped being produced in Braille.
I mean they have stopped New Beacon so why not Access IT

New Beacon (or NB) is only online now.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of CJ
&AA MAY
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:14 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

In fact, according to Access IT, I believe the initial letter of Iphone isn't
capitalised but the p is. And yes, I wouldn't have known this until I saw the
word capitalised in the magazine. But these are commercial names and not
essential to everyday grammar.
I wouldn't be surprised if in our lifetime we saw capitalisation rules change.
Texting may well change the way we write, as it often drops capitals as well as
changing spelling.
Alison


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Rajmund
Sent: 25 July 2015 17:55
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hello George,
Also, I, is capitalised. So something like i went to the shop, in theory, would
be incorrect. It should be I went to the shop. I personally find capitals
useful.

----- Original Message -----
From: George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Saturday, 25 July 2015 3:26 pm
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition



Hi Alison,

Without capitals, how would a braille reader know that iPhone, iPad,
and
such like are spelling with a lower case letter I, followed by upper case P.
and the rest lower case?

In many cases it doesn't matter, but when the braille user is
writing
print, or using a braille to print device or program, it looks like sloppy
typing.

The RNIB are doing SEB to UEB one day courses, as are a few others.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 25 July 2015 09:31
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

I have no problem with the use of the capital indicators in
children's
books although I learnt braille as a ten-year-old and later trained as a
shorthand typist and never had any problems learning where to capitalise.
But I see little benefgit to adult material being capitalised.
It's quite challenging for me at the moment as I am in the middle of
teaching Braille to two adults and am using the Fingerprint books.
I've
needed to unteach and for of the with and have to keep the UEB guidelines with
me to remind me which of the lower cells are no longer in use.
Is there a teaching course for the UEB system?
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
Sent: 24 July 2015 23:30
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hi Alison

Having worked in education all my life as a teacher and for the last
15
years of this as a braille teacher I disagree with you. I'm in no doubt that
the capital indicator and others you speak of will be of benefit to children
using braille in schools and colleges. I do accept that for some children they
will cause more confusion than to be of help but as teachers we are able adjust
the learning programme for each individual student.

All the best from Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Jul 2015, at 19:59, CJ &AA MAY <chrisalismay@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Dave, I received this document too but it wasn't a consultation.
The
decision had already been made.
I think we were invited to comment but unlike an earlier
consultation
about
15 years ago, this time we were not in a position to stop EUB
being
introduced.
I can see the reasons for introducing UEB, I am just resentful
that
it has been imposed upon us. The comparison I quote is all the
print
publishers suddenly deciding that all the English-speaking world
should use the same spelling and making a decision that in future
all publications would use
the
American style of spelling - can you imagine the uproar!
As a teacher of braille, I would also argue that the changes
really
won't make much difference to the ease of learning braille.
Although I will learn to tolerate the changes to abbreviations and

contractions, I am really resentful about the introduction of
capitalisation
into adult reading material and all the font indicators which are
of
absolutely no benefit to the braille reader.
Moan! Moan! Moan!
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of
Dave Sheridan
Sent: 24 July 2015 19:07
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hi Peter and all

Firstly Peter, dismissing the UEB code as rubbish without
considering the reasoning behind its implementation is rash and
unfair. Regarding consultation, all I can say is that as I was in
receipt of one braille publication at the time people were
surveyed
I received my copy and was
able
to participate. I can only guess that those braille readers
receiving braille books from RNIBs library will also have received

the survey document. Add to this word of mouth from one braille
reader to another
then
I suspect opportunity to participate in the survey was there for a

significant number of braille users. I am in full agreement with
those who have expressed the unnecessary use of elements of UEB
where this is not needed and George is absolutely correct that
there
needs to be clear guidance to transcribers regarding the
application
of the code according
to
the text required to be brailled. So rather than be critical of
UEB
let's embrace it but work together so that it better serves the
need
of the recipients by letting transcribers know about elements of
the
braille copy that isn't fit for purpose.

All the best from Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Jul 2015, at 11:53, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I wonder exactly how many Braille readers were involved in the
decision
to
change to this rubbish Braille code? I don't read much braille
these
days apart from my bank statements, and , fortunately, they are
still produced
in
standard english Braille.

-----Original Message----- From: Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:05 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hello all,

Though I'm not wholly against the UEB, I do think publishers need

to
decide when they give the full works, such as the braille simbols
for
bold,
italics, underline, and when this would serve no other purpose
than
to
slow
the reader down. If I'm studying, and need to know how to present
my
written
work, I would want the whole code, but why do I need to be
bothered
with
the
splurge of dots around every other word when I'm reading a
biography
of my favourite singer or cricketer? I also wonder how easy it is
for people to get their heads round excessively dotty Braille
when,
say, the sensitivity in their fingers is limited because of
diabetes?

These are the sort of things one sometimes wishes one could say
in
free-form text slots, but surveys often don't include those.

Best,
Clive



Best,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf
Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

I don't like the changes and feel quite annoyed about the
high-handed way
in which they have been introduced but I'm not going to take part
in
this petition because I feel it is too late. I do in actual fact
see
the reason behind many of the changes and although I might not
like
them, I do accept that in time I will get used to them but I think
a
more relevant petition might be to braille publishers for them to
use common sense in that I
don't
want my publications full of italics, boldfacing and other symbols

which just slow down my reading speed.
I also would prefer my material non-capitalised but I feel this
petition
is just spitting in the wind - the decision has been made and I
fear
we
will
just have to learn to live with it.
Alison

my way

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On

Behalf
Of Tony Sweeney
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:08
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

It's a bit like students and the like looking for feedback on IT
projects
they are trying to develop, or for thesis particularly for the
blind
in
mind
and you never never hear any outcome afterwards.

We always like to assist but boy there is a limit to one's
patience!
On 24/07/2015 10:00, Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted
sender
carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote:
Derek,

Thanks for this, but we now refuse any petitions because then
you
get bombarded with so many messages afterwards. It really got
so
sickening and took me some while on occasions to fill them in.

It's a shame really, but there you are, we all have to live
within
our means.

Carol P
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby"
<derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:26 PM
Subject: [access-uk] braille changes petition


I thought Braille readers may be interested to take look
here:

http://chn.ge/1GD0QEv

It's a petition.



"Rnib: Offer your publications in SEB as well as UEB either
indefinitely or for a grace period.
Offer free UEB conversion courses to long-term Braillists
Provide better learning resources to support conversion from
SEB to
UEB"



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Sent from a Braille Sense
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