[access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

  • From: George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 10:10:53 +0000

Hi Janet,

The whole issue of correcting mistakes tends to be an unnecessarily sensitive
one.

If it was for an official examination, where accuracy counts, then I would not
make corrections under any circumstances. That is the task of the examiner -
no question about it.

However, where there are typos in the braille, or material asked to be put into
braille and vice versa, I personally believe it should be tactfully questioned.
I have always tried to do this, and get more comments like, "Thank you for
picking up my mistake", than I get negative comments.

I really got mad once when looking at some of my own daughters homework which
did not have all her mistakes marked with a red pen. When I questioned the
teacher, I was told that this was because, "We don't want to demoralise the
children.". Those who know me well, can well understand my very sharp
response, which suggested it was perhaps the teacher who did not know how to
spell.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Janet Bell
Sent: 26 July 2015 06:16
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hi George

I thought that if you printed something for somebody to send to someone else
you had to print (in braille) exactly what the person had written, even if it
was bad grammar or bad spelling.

Janet

-----Original Message-----
From: George Bell
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:41 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Derek,

If I was reviewing print job applications and received a badly written letter,
with grammatical and spelling errors, along with incorrect capitalisation, the
letter would most likely be binned, no matter who or where it had come from.

I would also expect my employees to have a decent standard of written English
for them to communicate using Word, e-mail and such like.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 25 July 2015 18:31
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hi George
I agree with you to a point.

Are all blind people expected to spell correctly, use correct grammar.
What about sighted people?
Do the same rules not apply!

Derek



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 3:27 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hi Alison,

Without capitals, how would a braille reader know that iPhone, iPad, and such
like are spelling with a lower case letter I, followed by upper case P.
and the rest lower case?

In many cases it doesn't matter, but when the braille user is writing print, or
using a braille to print device or program, it looks like sloppy typing.

The RNIB are doing SEB to UEB one day courses, as are a few others.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of CJ
&AA MAY
Sent: 25 July 2015 09:31
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

I have no problem with the use of the capital indicators in children's books
although I learnt braille as a ten-year-old and later trained as a shorthand
typist and never had any problems learning where to capitalise. But I see
little benefgit to adult material being capitalised.
It's quite challenging for me at the moment as I am in the middle of teaching
Braille to two adults and am using the Fingerprint books.
I've needed to unteach and for of the with and have to keep the UEB guidelines
with me to remind me which of the lower cells are no longer in use.
Is there a teaching course for the UEB system?
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Dave Sheridan
Sent: 24 July 2015 23:30
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hi Alison

Having worked in education all my life as a teacher and for the last
15 years of this as a braille teacher I disagree with you. I'm in no doubt that
the capital indicator and others you speak of will be of benefit to children
using braille in schools and colleges. I do accept that for some children they
will cause more confusion than to be of help but as teachers we are able adjust
the learning programme for each individual student.

All the best from Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Jul 2015, at 19:59, CJ &AA MAY <chrisalismay@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dave, I received this document too but it wasn't a consultation. The

decision had already been made.
I think we were invited to comment but unlike an earlier
consultation
about
15 years ago, this time we were not in a position to stop EUB being
introduced.
I can see the reasons for introducing UEB, I am just resentful that
it
has been imposed upon us. The comparison I quote is all the print
publishers suddenly deciding that all the English-speaking world
should use the same spelling and making a decision that in future
all
publications would use
the
American style of spelling - can you imagine the uproar!
As a teacher of braille, I would also argue that the changes really
won't make much difference to the ease of learning braille.
Although I will learn to tolerate the changes to abbreviations and
contractions, I am really resentful about the introduction of
capitalisation
into adult reading material and all the font indicators which are of

absolutely no benefit to the braille reader.
Moan! Moan! Moan!
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of
Dave Sheridan
Sent: 24 July 2015 19:07
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hi Peter and all

Firstly Peter, dismissing the UEB code as rubbish without
considering
the reasoning behind its implementation is rash and unfair.
Regarding
consultation, all I can say is that as I was in receipt of one
braille
publication at the time people were surveyed I received my copy and
was
able
to participate. I can only guess that those braille readers
receiving
braille books from RNIBs library will also have received the survey
document. Add to this word of mouth from one braille reader to
another
then
I suspect opportunity to participate in the survey was there for a
significant number of braille users. I am in full agreement with
those
who have expressed the unnecessary use of elements of UEB where this

is not needed and George is absolutely correct that there needs to
be
clear guidance to transcribers regarding the application of the code

according
to
the text required to be brailled. So rather than be critical of UEB

let's embrace it but work together so that it better serves the need

of the recipients by letting transcribers know about elements of the

braille copy that isn't fit for purpose.

All the best from Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Jul 2015, at 11:53, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I wonder exactly how many Braille readers were involved in the
decision
to
change to this rubbish Braille code? I don't read much braille these

days apart from my bank statements, and , fortunately, they are
still
produced
in
standard english Braille.

-----Original Message----- From: Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:05 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

Hello all,

Though I'm not wholly against the UEB, I do think publishers need
to
decide when they give the full works, such as the braille simbols
for
bold,
italics, underline, and when this would serve no other purpose than
to
slow
the reader down. If I'm studying, and need to know how to present my
written
work, I would want the whole code, but why do I need to be bothered
with
the
splurge of dots around every other word when I'm reading a biography

of my favourite singer or cricketer? I also wonder how easy it is
for
people to get their heads round excessively dotty Braille when, say,

the sensitivity in their fingers is limited because of diabetes?

These are the sort of things one sometimes wishes one could say in
free-form text slots, but surveys often don't include those.

Best,
Clive



Best,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

I don't like the changes and feel quite annoyed about the
high-handed
way
in which they have been introduced but I'm not going to take part in

this petition because I feel it is too late. I do in actual fact see

the reason behind many of the changes and although I might not like
them, I do accept that in time I will get used to them but I think a

more relevant petition might be to braille publishers for them to
use
common sense in that I
don't
want my publications full of italics, boldfacing and other symbols
which just slow down my reading speed.
I also would prefer my material non-capitalised but I feel this
petition
is just spitting in the wind - the decision has been made and I fear

we
will
just have to learn to live with it.
Alison

my way

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Tony Sweeney
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:08
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition

It's a bit like students and the like looking for feedback on IT
projects
they are trying to develop, or for thesis particularly for the blind

in
mind
and you never never hear any outcome afterwards.

We always like to assist but boy there is a limit to one's
patience!
On 24/07/2015 10:00, Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted
sender
carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote:
Derek,

Thanks for this, but we now refuse any petitions because then you
get bombarded with so many messages afterwards. It really got so
sickening and took me some while on occasions to fill them in.

It's a shame really, but there you are, we all have to live within

our means.

Carol P
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby"
<derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:26 PM
Subject: [access-uk] braille changes petition


I thought Braille readers may be interested to take look here:

http://chn.ge/1GD0QEv

It's a petition.



"Rnib: Offer your publications in SEB as well as UEB either
indefinitely or for a grace period.
Offer free UEB conversion courses to long-term Braillists
Provide
better learning resources to support conversion from SEB to UEB"



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