Hello Derik,
I agree. I hardly read these days. When you put speech to a fast speed, you're
quicker than a sighted!
----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Hornby <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Saturday, 25 July 2015 7:56 pm
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hi Alison
I don't fully understand what you are saying below.
My view is that one can use an Phone, Ipad, etc to read
books, so why bother with hard copy Braille?
You can use online banking use ebilling
so no need for hard copy Braille is there!
In the restaurant you can use your Phone to access
web site to read the menu so no need for Braille menus is there!
Why do you think RNIB has its New Beacon online, but not
in hardcopy Braille.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:43 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
I'm not as pessimistic as you, Derek. Until they can bring down the
cost of
electronic braille, there will continue to be a demand for hard copy
braille.
However, I do think that electronic braille will be the saving of the
code.
Now people can access Ibooks, mobile phones as well as computers, it
must
surely mean there is a stronger case for people to learn the code -
even if
they never plan to read a hard copy braille book or magazine.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 25 July 2015 11:22
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hi Janet
I think hatrdcopy braille books will be killed off soon.
Books are far more likely to bewnloaded and read on computers ipads
iphones etc.
So why the expense of moving to ueb ?
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Janet Bell
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 5:51 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
much as I agree with what Mike and Dave have said I think that from
now on
braille books will take up a lot more space than they did before. I
accept
the capital letter symbol should be used. If you don't like it ask
the
Scottish braille press to write your magazines apparently they are not
using
ueb. (joke) Nobody will be talking about this in a year it will just
be
accepted.
Janet
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ray
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:21 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Before the 1st of January 1971, or whatever date it was that decimal
coinage was introduced, I was just coming up for six years old.
There was a lot of opposition to it of course with older folks moaning
about it for years afterwards.
But, I distinctly remember that before the change, I had to get my
father to count my pocket money for me. There were so many names to
remember; shilling, tanner, sixpence, thru'penny bit, half-a-crown
etc.
Immediately after the change, when my weekly pocket money changed from
half-a-crown to 12.5 new pence, I could immediately count it myself.
I have a similar experience with UEB. I am a learner, started about
six
years ago and I'm by no means a total beginner but by no means an
expert, and I find UEB easier.
Bottom line, folks don't like change. To paraphrase a quote everyone
will recognise; 'you can please some of the people all of the time,
and
all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the
people
all the time'.
Change happens for good reasons. Language is dynamic. The only
language I know that isn't is Morse.
Mike
On 24/07/2015 23:12, Dave Sheridan wrote:
Hi Derekdepend of
Yes the reasons do matter in the same way you suggest it should
whether the user finds it easier or not. The reality is that braillehas
changed over time with the last changes taking place in 2004 andbefore
that in the 1980s. I could spell out some of the reasons for changeagain
if you wish but I did so some time ago and you were part of thethread
then. What isn't helpful is referring to UEB as rubbish when thereare
clear advantages to its implementation. As a long-toothed braillistmyself
there's a degree of discomfort with elements like the capitalindicator
but I like a number of other braille users am prepared to acceptthis for
the advancement of the braille code.<derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On 24 Jul 2015, at 19:52, Derek Hornby
consideringwrote:
HI Dave
You said
"Firstly Peter, dismissing the UEB code as rubbish without
consideringthe reasoning behind its implementation is rash and unfair"
Do the reasons really matter?
Surely what matters is whether the new code is, or is not,
easier for the average Braille reader.
As for the consultation I think the point is we never
were given the right to vote for or against change.
Even RNIB failed to let its members vote?
So I suggest the unfair issue is, the new system has
been imposed on us, whether we like it or not.
Regards, Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 7:07 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hi Peter and all
Firstly Peter, dismissing the UEB code as rubbish without
Regardingthe reasoning behind its implementation is rash and unfair.
brailleconsultation, all I can say is that as I was in receipt of one
readerspublication at the time people were surveyed I received my copy and
was able to participate. I can only guess that those braille
thereceiving braille books from RNIBs library will also have received
tosurvey document. Add to this word of mouth from one braille reader
requiredanother then I suspect opportunity to participate in the survey was
there for a significant number of braille users. I am in full
agreement with those who have expressed the unnecessary use of
elements of UEB where this is not needed and George is absolutely
correct that there needs to be clear guidance to transcribers
regarding the application of the code according to the text
fortunately,to be brailled. So rather than be critical of UEB let's embrace it
but work together so that it better serves
the need of the recipients by letting transcribers know about
elements of the braille copy that isn't fit for purpose.
All the best from Dave
Sent from my iPhone
decision to change to this rubbish Braille code? I don't read muchOn 24 Jul 2015, at 11:53, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
I wonder exactly how many Braille readers were involved in the
braille these days apart from my bank statements, and ,
tothey are still produced in standard english Braille.
-----Original Message----- From: Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 11:05 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hello all,
Though I'm not wholly against the UEB, I do think publishers need
fordecide when they give the full works, such as the braille simbols
purposebold, italics, underline, and when this would serve no other
tothan to slow the reader down. If I'm studying, and need to know how
wordpresent my written work, I would want the whole code, but why do I
need to be bothered with the splurge of dots around every other
fingerswhen I'm reading a biography of my favourite singer or cricketer? I
also wonder how easy it is for people to get their heads round
excessively dotty Braille when, say, the sensitivity in their
goingis limited because of diabetes?
free-form text slots, but surveys often don't include those.
These are the sort of things one sometimes wishes one could say in
Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Best,
Clive
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:17high-handed way in which they have been introduced but I'm not
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
I don't like the changes and feel quite annoyed about the
into take part in this petition because I feel it is too late. I do
Iactual fact see the reason behind many of the changes and although
themmight not like them, I do accept that in time I will get used to
fullbut I think a more relevant petition might be to braille publishers
for them to use common sense in that I don't want my publications
andof italics, boldfacing and other symbols which just slow down my
reading speed.
I also would prefer my material non-capitalised but I feel thispetition is just spitting in the wind - the decision has been made
patience!I fear we will just have to learn to live with it.
AlisonBehalf Of Tony Sweeney
my way
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:08projects they are trying to develop, or for thesis particularly for
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
It's a bit like students and the like looking for feedback on IT
the blind in mind and you never never hear any outcome afterwards.
We always like to assist but boy there is a limit to one's
withinsender carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote:On 24/07/2015 10:00, Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted
getDerek,
Thanks for this, but we now refuse any petitions because then you
bombarded with so many messages afterwards. It really got so
sickening and took me some while on occasions to fill them in.
It's a shame really, but there you are, we all have to live
Provideour
means.
Carol P
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby"
<derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:26 PM
Subject: [access-uk] braille changes petition
I thought Braille readers may be interested to take look here:
http://chn.ge/1GD0QEv
It's a petition.
"Rnib: Offer your publications in SEB as well as UEB either
indefinitely or for a grace period.
Offer free UEB conversion courses to long-term Braillists
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-better learning resources to support conversion from SEB to UEB"
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--
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK
Eyes-free Linux:
http://eyesfreelinux.ninja/
Raspberry VI:
http://www.raspberryvi.org/
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