Hi George, this was a commercially produced book by one of the UK’s primary
Braille providers. I remember the decision appeared to have been taken to
include print page numbers in Braille books, supposedly in the name of equality
of access. but they then took it one step further and referred only to the
print pages in the list of contents. So actually it was proactive rather than
laziness. Wrong-headed nonetheless though.
On 24 Jul 2015, at 12:41, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Ian,
That is just plain bad transcription, laziness, or both.
If the book was specifically for one individual, it's worth calling them to
ask.
If it is say a popular book in general publication and being transcribed for
unknown braille users, there is a possibility that someone sighted might say,
"It's on page so and so", then we would do the Table of Contents with braille
page numbers, but use the print Page indicator top left - with the braille
page number in the customary position, top right.
It really is not a difficult or time consuming task if the transcriber has
the correct tools.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Ian Macrae
Sent: 24 July 2015 11:40
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
The issue of producers’ common sense approach is crucial. There are, a
George and clive have said examples of times when people need full access and
explanation of sighted text which has been rendered into Braille. But we all
know of times when this approach has gone too far. I still have a Braille
cookery book where the page numbers given in the contents relate to the print
pages. Taking things that far is just crackers.
On 24 Jul 2015, at 11:14, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hi George,
I agree. Let's get some formal guidance out there, as bad practice is
probably bringing the new code into disrepute.
I have an issue with exam papers whichask you to explain the meaning of
words in bold, or whatever, as there is already guidance out there to prompt
people to avoid conveying information by visual attribute alone. The
original would present difficulties for anyone using speech to hear the exam
paper, wouldn't it? By the same token, how would UEB represent the same
question if, as it frequently is, the wording had been:
"Explain the meaning of the words in the following text which are shown in
blue."
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:55
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
Hi there,
There is absolutely no requirement to include emphasis of any kind in UEB,
unless it is relevant.
This is something which transcribers and braille producers need to address
properly, and probably needs some formal guidance from UKAAF.
I can state quite categorically that Duxbury has options to ignore italics,
bold and underline as well as language flags.
That said, we do need to take care with certain types of document, such as
examination papers, where they may say something like, "Explain the meaning
of the words in the following text which are shown in bold."
In books, often something like a ship's name will be italicised throughout,
and yet it is not uncommon to italicise a word which is stressed when spoken.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
I don't like the changes and feel quite annoyed about the high-handed way in
which they have been introduced but I'm not going to take part in this
petition because I feel it is too late. I do in actual fact see the reason
behind many of the changes and although I might not like them, I do accept
that in time I will get used to them but I think a more relevant petition
might be to braille publishers for them to use common sense in that I don't
want my publications full of italics, boldfacing and other symbols which
just slow down my reading speed.
I also would prefer my material non-capitalised but I feel this petition is
just spitting in the wind - the decision has been made and I fear we will
just have to learn to live with it.
Alison
my way
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Tony Sweeney
Sent: 24 July 2015 10:08
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: braille changes petition
It's a bit like students and the like looking for feedback on IT projects
they are trying to develop, or for thesis particularly for the blind in mind
and you never never hear any outcome afterwards.
We always like to assist but boy there is a limit to one's patience!
On 24/07/2015 10:00, Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote:
Derek,
Thanks for this, but we now refuse any petitions because then you get
bombarded with so many messages afterwards. It really got so
sickening and took me some while on occasions to fill them in.
It's a shame really, but there you are, we all have to live within
our means.
Carol P
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Hornby"
<derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:26 PM
Subject: [access-uk] braille changes petition
I thought Braille readers may be interested to take look here:
http://chn.ge/1GD0QEv
It's a petition.
"Rnib: Offer your publications in SEB as well as UEB either
indefinitely or for a grace period.
Offer free UEB conversion courses to long-term Braillists Provide
better learning resources to support conversion from SEB to UEB"
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