[access-uk] Re: WindowEyes V Jaws
- From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:09:48 +0200
Hi Mike
Thanks I'll try it. No lucky I don't need to work in Afrikaans, just
English as far as I know, I haven't used Afrikaans since I left
school, have forgotten much of it unfortunately. I am really impressed
what everyone's telling me about nvda, it really seems improving.
Thanks
Ari
On 10/25/12, Michael Ray <mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I have just upgraded my NVDA to 2012.2.1 and successfully added svox pico
> using the add-on manager.
>
> Ari; the svox pico synthesiser supports UK and American English, Spanish,
> French, Italian and German. No Afrikaans unfortunately but you may be
> working exclusively in English.
>
> I didn't like the svox pico voice as much as I used to but that might be
> because I have changed my headphones since I last heard it.
>
> I am impressed by the new add-ins manager in 2012.2.1
>
> Mike Ray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ejaz Shah" <eashah67@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 11:54 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: WindowEyes V Jaws
>
>
>> There is an nvda-addon version of the synthesizer and it is easy to
>> install using the addon manager in NVDA 2012.2.1. And in NVDA 2012.3,
>> addons can be installed direct from Windows Explorer.
>> On 25/10/2012 03:06, Michael Ray wrote:
>>> Ari,
>>>
>>> There was a change between some earlier versions of NVDA and more current
>>>
>>> versions with reference to where in the directory tree svox pico should
>>> go. I had some problems a couple of times because I was putting it in the
>>>
>>> wrong place. But I currently have svox working with 2012.1 and I'm about
>>>
>>> to upgrade to 2012.2.1 so I'll try installing svox and see what happens.
>>>
>>>
>>> NVDA also supports MS SAPI 5 voices, and there some pretty good free
>>> voices available for that. But I don't use SAPI because it doesn't seem
>>>
>>> as lean as eSpeak and is a bit resource hungry.
>>>
>>> Orca is ok but Linux can be a bit daunting if you're not a bit of a
>>> hacker. Vinux is worth a look because it has a talking installer, so you
>>>
>>> can install it without sighted assistance, and there is also a live CD
>>> distro that will boot to allow you to try it without writing anything to
>>>
>>> your Windows partitions at all.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ari Damoulakis"
>>> <aridamoulakis@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:23 PM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: WindowEyes V Jaws
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Michael and Steve
>>>> Thanks for the replies. Steve, I'm not arguing that I'm probably
>>>> missing out, for me it is rather a matter of principle why I won't buy
>>>> we for the reasons I explained earlier.
>>>> Michael, this is interesting about NVDA. I had heard about that svox
>>>> synthesizer, and, if I remember correctly I tried installing it
>>>> according to the instructions but never got voice output for some
>>>> reason. Yeah, espeak is fast and really responsive, but that really
>>>> robotic voice all day would kill me. Basically, I'm really not sure
>>>> what's expected of me, what operating system I'm going to be using or
>>>> anything. I'm just going to do voluntary holiday work and have no
>>>> idea. Maybe they do use linux and I'll get quite a shock when I go
>>>> there, I'd forgotten that angle. Then both I and them will have to try
>>>> solutions. As far as I've heard, linux you can't do much with the orca
>>>> screen reader, apparrently email and web browsing and word processing
>>>> with difficulty? The tasks I'm basically expecting I'll be doing are
>>>> word processing, email, research like web browsing, but possibly also
>>>> maybe a database with clients, like MS Access (am not sure what open
>>>> source equivalent is), maybe excel. But lucky for me, it is not the
>>>> really complex stuff like what you and Steve do, i.e programming or
>>>> real technical stuff where I'm sure you need the best products.
>>>> Although I am also asking for one of my friends who has the same
>>>> problem and she has to use a program called Audacity. The dolphin
>>>> people told me that works with SN, maybe she should see if it works
>>>> with nvda.
>>>> Ari
>>>> On 10/24/12, Michael Ray <mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> Ari,
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you don't mind me replying to your email about screen-readers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a Supernova Pen edition, can't remember the version number at
>>>>> the
>>>>> moment but it's only a couple of years old. Ten I think maybe?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have stopped using Supernova and now use NVDA almost exclusively. I
>>>>> dropped Supernova because my edition was not working at all with some
>>>>> of the
>>>>>
>>>>> software development tools I use, mostly I think because of the
>>>>> gradual
>>>>> introduction of Windows Presentation Foundation for screen-painting,
>>>>> and
>>>>> because I was getting less than good support from Dolphin. Their
>>>>> mantra
>>>>> seems to be 'give us more money and it will work'.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's true I don't use the most up to date MS office products. If I do
>>>>> use
>>>>> office it's 2000 Premium and NVDA seems to work perfectly with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's true that NVDA say on the Web site that it doesn't work very well
>>>>>
>>>>> with
>>>>>
>>>>> office but they list other products it does work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are doing work with voluntary or charity organisations I am
>>>>> surprised
>>>>>
>>>>> they are not making more use of Open Source software.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think if I remember correctly, NVDA list these as tools to use with
>>>>> NVDA:
>>>>>
>>>>> Firefox browser
>>>>> Thunderbird email client
>>>>> IBM Lotus Symphony office suite.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have not used Lotus Symphony but Firefox and Thunderbird work fine
>>>>> with
>>>>> NVDA.
>>>>>
>>>>> NVDA supports a number of synthesisers. I use eSpeak almost
>>>>> exclusively
>>>>> because it is lean and mean. There is another nice little synthesiser
>>>>> called svox pico that has a very real sounding voice. Of course I'm
>>>>> not
>>>>> sure about language support for languages other than English.
>>>>>
>>>>> If your voluntary organisations wanted to save even more money it
>>>>> could
>>>>> ditch Windows completely and go with Linux. There is a distribution
>>>>> of
>>>>> Linux called Vinux that works with a screen-reader out-of-the-box so
>>>>> to
>>>>> speak. But other people on here can tell you more about Vinux.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would definitely look more carefully at NVDA to see if it will do
>>>>> what you
>>>>>
>>>>> want. The zero cost of it is a winner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Ray
>>>>> UK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ari Damoulakis" <aridamoulakis@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 8:46 PM
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: WindowEyes V Jaws
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Steve
>>>>>> Can I please ask you, how good actually is Supernova Screen reader
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> how does their activation policy work? Not really ignoring it, but
>>>>>> yes, what I do hate about jaws is, for example, I'm going to do some
>>>>>> voluntary work for eith a development or a legal NGO for a few weeks.
>>>>>> I want to do more with the NGO sector in my country and, because its
>>>>>> voluntary work and these ngos don't have much resources I have to
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> my own plans about screenreaders anyway. Just because I have to use
>>>>>> someone else's system and bring my own jaws I have to use an
>>>>>> activation key (demo is not an option, can you imagine on a job
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> to reboot every 30 minutes, mad). Then, because you have to use a
>>>>>> key,
>>>>>> you have to justify yourself to fs to reset your keys. Not to mention
>>>>>> the even worse jaws feature (don't know if it still exists) the pro
>>>>>> version and standard version. I'm terrified my jaws won't work on the
>>>>>> computer I have to use anyway. Dolphin says they will give me 33%
>>>>>> discount if I trade in my jaws. I would go for that if SN is good, or
>>>>>> if their activation policy is different, or maybe I will try the pen
>>>>>> route, don't really know the difference between the pen and cd
>>>>>> version. I'm going to try the demo, but would be good to hear user
>>>>>> feedback. My other option is, here in South Africa we have a version
>>>>>> called the Sight Savers pen, but despite many emails to dolphin
>>>>>> support I still haven't got an answer, I know the cheap pen is a cut
>>>>>> down version of the full pen, but I want to know in what ways. Am
>>>>>> basically trying to find a propper solution here.
>>>>>> Instead of SN, how good would NVDA be with programs like excel and
>>>>>> outlook? I know you could put it on a pen, but I feel quite scared
>>>>>> that they will ask me to do something, nvda won't be up to the job
>>>>>> then I'll look really embarrassed (this would look awful and
>>>>>> unfortunately organisations are still very weary of hiring blind
>>>>>> people, so don't want to take the risk and, even though its voluntary
>>>>>> work, want to make a good impression) I've sort of played with nvda,
>>>>>> but never really gotten into it, I also hate the speech.
>>>>>> Like you say, the reason I don't do the WE is to me it does seem
>>>>>> unfair. Not really about the activation, I wouldn't mind so much if
>>>>>> everyone had it, but the fact that they have some sort of hierarchy,
>>>>>> like people in US, UK and Australia are trusted, so no activation or
>>>>>> protection, people in other countries aren't. I know of course
>>>>>> they're
>>>>>> entitled to do that if that's what they want, and I probably would
>>>>>> admit that piracy occurs in the third world etc, but I don't want to
>>>>>> buy from a company who operates like that.
>>>>>> Ari
>>>>>> On 10/24/12, Michael Ray <mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think Dolphin are getting left behind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I use NVDA. It's freeeeeee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ari Damoulakis" <aridamoulakis@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 5:24 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: WindowEyes V Jaws
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Technically you can use jaws in safe mode. I can't remember if its
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> this list, but there's a registry change a person posted where it
>>>>>>>> starts up the audio device in safe mode. Look, I'm not saying we is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> bad screen reader or anything like that, but like Collin points
>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>> if you're not in the UK you do have activation keys and all sorts
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> stuff. Of course you can get someone in the UK to buy it for you as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> workaround, but then how do you solve the problem of upgrading it
>>>>>>>> everytime?
>>>>>>>> There's also of course Supernova screen reader and the Cobra, but I
>>>>>>>> don't know how good they are and if they'd do what you want. Cobra
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> also nice because you can put it on as many computers as what you
>>>>>>>> use.
>>>>>>>> Ari
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/24/12, Colin Howard <colin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jaws demands registration for everybody no matter where they are
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> I am aware, has only so many keys. Years ago, when I used
>>>>>>>>> WindowEyes
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> work, this would have been in the mid 'nineties in the days of
>>>>>>>>> Windows3.11
>>>>>>>>> and W.E V.3 and around, UK users also had the hassal of
>>>>>>>>> registration
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> number of keys Etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Colin Howard, living near Southampton in Southern
>>>>>>>>> England.
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