[access-uk] Re: What do you consider inaccessible?

  • From: "Damon Rose" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:33:03 +0100

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All sounds good Dave but don't believe I was contradicting myself. I was
suggesting a simple update whereby I could quite literally pinpoint a
part of the screen for a colleague to look at and hence I'd be in total
control with no faffing or guesswork going on. The improvement you're
suggesting sounds like a bigger update. Anyway am not particularly up
for having an argument about it. We all work differently. 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 22 July 2010 09:08
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: What do you consider inaccessible?

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Damon

I'm afraid you are completely contradicting yourself here. Where I do
agree with you is that Jaws does not present a page to us in the way it
looks on screen. I don't see any reason why they couldn't give Jaws a
mode where it behaves the same as it does with Magic installed, where it
does keep the page as it looks, and highlights where Jaws is. I think
you could make a very coherent suggestion to FS along these lines, and I
actually think it's the kind of thing they might go for. 

My question for you is, if you want to know what is causing Jaws
problems, how can you find that out without being given technical
information? I would also add that you have a high level of control of
what Jaws speaks in HTML.
You should check out the HTML options in Config manager. There are even
plenty in the insert-v verbosity dialog. The trouble is there are so
many types of control available now that if you don't know what it is,
you don't know what you can do with it. Maybe you should also suggest an
"expose OnMousOver" option, where you can control if you need to use
ctrl-jaws-enter to activate an OnMouseOver (thing you hover over with a
mouse and more options open up) or whether all items are always exposed.

Cheers
Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Damon Rose
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:46 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: What do you consider inaccessible?

** File was empty **
What Alan is describing is the mismatch between the screenreader
experieence and the sighted experience of a web page. 

Screenreaders have this awful way of giving you oodles of techie
information about a screen as if you were an HTML coder. There must be a
better way of giving that information across though I can't immediately
think of one. 

But worse, using JAWS with a sighted colleague looking over my shoulder
.... It's difficult to locate a part of the screen you're having
difficulty with as it's entirely possible on occasions that what you're
listening to via JAWS is completely different to what is currently on
screen. It'd be good if jaws had a 'here I am' button so that when you
pressed it, that little region of the screen would quickly flash red to
grab someone's attention. But there are reasons why this could be
difficult or misleading probably. 

I was suggesting, though, that we as blind people need a way of knowing
why a website doesn't work or why it goes all bouncy so that your
screenreader cursor goes slip sliding all over the place or experiences
massive amount of lag and delay when attempting to read or perform an
action. 

If we knew that the issue was because of a particular java applet in the
top right corner of the screen, then we could feed it back to the site
owner. Coders like to hear specific problems and specific solutions and
can often get onto it very quicly or build it in to an accessibility
strategy for a future release. The majority of coders I know are real
problem solvers and get off on creating solutions and getting it right. 

That's just one thing though. Legislation or insentives is another. 

I'm gonna stop banging on about this now. 

...Damon 



















 

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 21 July 2010 19:49
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: What do you consider inaccessible?

Alan,
 
You are singing from the Apple Hymn Sheet. Their entire concept is based
around letting you know what is where on the screen. 
 
Cheers
Dave
 
 
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Alan Thorpe
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 5:45 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: What do you consider inaccessible?
 
Hello.
To start off being pedantic, sorry for spelling.
How are we able to say what is accessible when using a screen reader as
I only know what is there when it tells me, what about all the other
stuff that a screen reader does not tell me about.
When I look at a site with a screen reader and move around it my brother
says where are you as he can not see some of the things on screen but
jaws is saying content or actions.
I can not recall any particular site but this why I give up on them.
 
This question is like asking a visually impaired person what can you
see.
How can I answer if I do not know what you can see.
 
e.g.
I can see that tree, but you could say that there is a bird nest, a foot
ball, a plastic bag or even a branch which is dead and no leaves, you
ask me that sort of question like can you see that cat on the wall and I
say no but say what is over there I will say a wall and a blue gate, so
how can I say what is accessible on a web site.
Sorry for my rant but things have to be put in to context.
 
 
MANY THANKS
ALAN THORPE
 
TEL. 0114 2207007
MOB. 07961 406739
EMAIL info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
WEB. www.eyecan.org.uk
 
 

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