It's the ideal Bim but more work and effort needs to go into making websites usable after being made accessible.
This is usually done by grouping information in good ways using good HTML markup as you know. C has to be the only way forward especially as certain websites like Disney are even suggesting they have no particular obligation to make their site accessible for blind users. I can never imagine them thinking they'd go the whole hog with a separate site and keep that maintained, there surely has to be more room to encourage them to build accessibility into what they've got pointing out benefits like SEO and multi platform access as a side benefit.
I'm intrigued by how apple seem to get good access into their IOS apps by providing standard buttons and elements. I realise the web is a multiple platform and browser feast but is there a way RNIB could provide code snippets to assist access and encourage companies to build on the code?
I see flaws here but it's something that might appeal to the underdog techies and designers in big companies, who happen to be interested in access.
But it's mostly about information architecture and page layout.----- Original Message ----- From: "Egan, Bim" <Bim.Egan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:18 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
Hi Mike, I'm really sad to hear about the bad experience with RNIB training, it would gall me too if that happened to anyone I know. It isn't part of my remit though, and I hope that a strongly worded complaint was sent to the person or people responsible. As to having a finger on the pulse, does your GP guess at your pulse rate if you go to him with a complaint, or does he check it? That's all I'm doing, checking to be certain. If we hadn't had a complaint, then we would have probably blithely gone on assuming that everyone wants Option C, but a doubt has been raised, and we want to be sure that we are really representing your views. All the best, Bim -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Moore Sent: 09 March 2011 20:16 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences Hello, Can I add my two pennies worth? My local Social Services paid for training for a gentleman, who was blind, starting to use a computer. The RNIB started offering "free" training, instantly stopping the paid training. The volunteer doing the training from the RNIB had no experience with JAWS, muddled the gent's computer up and left him high and dry. Now Social Services will not pay for any further training, as this free option is available. ... And by the way option C and as with others, it is tiresome, as the RNIB are supposed to have their "finger on the pulse". Regards, Mike (I'm not bitter!) :) -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Egan, Bim Sent: 09 March 2011 10:13 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences That's a very good point, and I'll certainly put the suggestion in front of someone who could do something with it. In fact, the same person who inspired this poll is also frustrated by the lack of training provision. In a recent government push to get more older people to use computers, she was doubly frustrated to learn that the training available couldn't cope with any AT needs. Thanks, Bim -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barry Hill Sent: 09 March 2011 10:06 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences I would argue that the answer to the problem you posed is assessment, training and support at an early stage. I believe that a computer, scanner and relevant software is an essential piece of kit for vip. Consideration for this equipment should be in Social Service assessments of needs and the training to use it to be given alongside independent living skills. Perhaps the RNIB could put this suggestion to local authorities. Cheers Barry -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Egan, Bim Sent: 09 March 2011 9:25 AM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences Hi Ian and Colin, We have always held the view that inclusion is what blind and partially sighted people want, but this has been challenged recently. Someone asked the not unreasonable question, "How do you know, have you asked?" The honest answer to that was that we hadn't. We've held the view on the basis of general moves in accessibility, views of VI people we know as well as our personal views. The question now is to see whether we were right or wrong. I'll fill in a bit more background here. There are screen reading systems that can't cope with modern web site techniques, and people, often those who are new to blindness and new to computers, who find the volumes of information difficult to deal with. What's the answer for these people? Thanks, Bim -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Colin Fowler Sent: 09 March 2011 09:16 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences No, it is very disappointing that the technical lead for the RNIB's web accessibility team is allowing doubt about web accessibility to influence and ask such questions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iain Lackie" <ilackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:08 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferencessurely the answer is obviously C. Design should be inclusive and Ithinkwe have seen too many examples of "special" sites not having all the facilities of the main site or not being properly maintained. I can'tevensee why the question is being asked. Iain -----Original Message----- From: Egan, Bim Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:29 AM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Website preferences Hi, Apologies if you see this on other lists ... My name's Bim Egan, I'm the technical lead for RNIB's web access team. Web designers sometimes look to RNIB for guidance on whatsight-impairedpeople need to make a site accessible. Though we have no power to insist that they take our advice, we want to make sure that what wesayis right for you and others . Could you help us please, by saying which of the following threeoptions(A, B or C) would be more likely to suit your needs? A. a text-only site, mirroring the main site with all its features;orB. A separate, simplified site made easier for sight-impaired people,but with the risk of missing out on some of the features on the main site; or Option C: If it's possible, one website that is accessible foreveryone,sighted and unsighted. Option B could mean extra cost for web designers, which they may not like to incur. On the other hand some people who work entirely fromthekeyboard tell us that Options A and C can mean far too many keystrokesfor them. Question: Would it be a good idea for RNIB, as policy, to encourage designers of the more popular or important sites for independent living, (grocery sites for example) to produce an option B version? Thank you. Bim -- DISCLAIMER: NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments isconfidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from your system. RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated byits staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However, it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments. Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarilyrepresentthose of RNIB. 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