[access-uk] Re: Website preferences
- From: "Egan, Bim" <Bim.Egan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:59:32 -0000
Hi Barbara,
I agree absolutely, most of us find untapped talents at all sorts of
ages. I certainly wouldn't say that someone would have to use guide
because they'd started drawing their pension. But it sells hundreds of
copies a year, so there do seem to be people who feel the need for it.
There's been a launch of a similar screen reading environment in America
last week too.
Whether it's perception, confidence, an increasing or a reducing issue,
the fact is that some people don't cope as well as others.
All the best,
Bim
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Barbara Wilson
Sent: 09 March 2011 15:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
I have delivered training on Guide against my advice simply because the
organisation paying for the training insisted as the clients were
elderly,
they could only cope with Guide. Within two sessions, the clients
themselves
were begging me to let them use JAWS as they felt restricted with Guide.
So assumptions that the elderly can only cope with a basic program like
Guide are often far from reality.
Kind Regards
Find me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/barkingbabs
Barbara Wilson
M: 07917710779
T: 02887784046
E: barkingbabs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
IM: creativeeyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: creativeeyes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Toner" <barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
> Hi Bim,
>
> This idea of the older generations and sight loss has always puzzled
me..
> We've been told for approximately 20 years that many projects and
products
> need to take into account the cognative needs of the "non-tech savvy"
> clients. Yet, on the other hand the RNIB, Guide Dogs and various
> Hospitals are not only pushing the education of eye-health but are
> involved with sight saving techniques. So which is it? Is sight loss
on
> the increase or decrease?
>
> On the use of technology by older people allot of us more techy folks
have
> been traditionally been told things along the lines of "You must
> understand not everyone is as technical as you etc. A good friend is
an
> experienced AT Trainer in Toronto, Canada. He's worked with allot of
> older clients over the years. As have I on a more tech support and
> consultant capacity here in N Ireland with
> http://www.itcanhelp.org.uk/
> In both of our experiences there certainly are those who might be in a
> position to only use products like Guide either initially or ever. On
the
> other hand I've met and worked with some very intelligent folks who
given
> the appropriate time and training can pretty much become competent
> computer users. I think genuinely the discussion is more of timing
and
> training rather than limiting access as many understandably have taken
> this thread to be.
>
> Regards,
> Barry.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Egan, Bim
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:02 AM
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>>
>> Thanks Barry,
>>
>> Good points all. We have started to work with some AT developers,
and
>> would like to engage with others, but not all of them will listen.
I
>> did think that we'd reached a cut off point a couple of years ago,
but
>> people who become blind in later life must find the ease of learning
>> the
>> less feature rich AT very attractive, and as we live longer and the
>> baby-boom peak hits, this may become a pressing problem.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bim
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Barry Toner
>> Sent: 09 March 2011 09:40
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>>
>> Hi Bim,
>>
>> It may take time but your approach suggests holding those back who
can
>> move forward for those who are unable to at present. Sledge hammer
to
>> knocka nail in.
>>
>> It would be more productive if the RNIB worked with the devs of the
>> less-feature ritch ATs. It may also be possible that there comes a
cut
>> off point... The more simple a product is to use the less
>> functionality
>> it unltimately has.
>> Regards,
>> Barry.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> > Behalf Of Egan, Bim
>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:31 AM
>> > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>> >
>> > Hi Barry,
>> >
>> > The question of "too many keystrokes" stems from some screen
reading
>> > interfaces that give the impression that the right way to use them
is
>> > to
>> > navigate through every piece of text on a page. Hence the call for
>> > simplified web pages. The people using this type of software are
>> > normally not very computer literate, being older people who are new
>> to
>> > blindness and reach out to computing as a solution, but don't have
>> the
>> > experience to handle a fully featured screen reader.
>> >
>> > It may well be as you say, a training issue, but that takes time
and
>> > meanwhile some people are getting left behind.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Bim
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> > Behalf
>> > Of Barry Toner
>> > Sent: 09 March 2011 09:22
>> > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Option C. Also please define what you mean by "Too many
keystrokes".
>> > If the site is designed well and the person is trained with their
>> > Adaptive Technology this should not be the case.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Barry.
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> > > Behalf Of Richard Godfrey-McKay
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 8:12 AM
>> > > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>> > >
>> > > Option c, every time.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Richard Godfrey-McKay
>> > >
>> > > Telephone: 01738-445 880
>> > >
>> > > Mobile: 07791 452 593
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> > > Behalf Of
>> > > Colin Fowler
>> > > Sent: 09 March 2011 07:33
>> > > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: Website preferences
>> > >
>> > > It has to be option C always! BS8878 underpins that and you
should
>> be
>> > > supporting BS8878.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Colin Fowler
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Egan, Bim" <Bim.Egan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:29 AM
>> > > Subject: [access-uk] Website preferences
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Hi,
>> > > >
>> > > > Apologies if you see this on other lists ...
>> > > >
>> > > > My name's Bim Egan, I'm the technical lead for RNIB's web
access
>> > > team.
>> > > > Web designers sometimes look to RNIB for guidance on what
sight-
>> > > impaired
>> > > > people need to make a site accessible. Though we have no power
>> to
>> > > > insist that they take our advice, we want to make sure that
what
>> we
>> > > say
>> > > > is right for you and others .
>> > > >
>> > > > Could you help us please, by saying which of the following
three
>> > > options
>> > > > (A, B or C) would be more likely to suit your needs?
>> > > >
>> > > > A. a text-only site, mirroring the main site with all its
>> > features;
>> > > or
>> > > >
>> > > > B. A separate, simplified site made easier for sight-impaired
>> > > people,
>> > > > but with the risk of missing out on some of the features on the
>> > main
>> > > > site; or
>> > > >
>> > > > Option C: If it's possible, one website that is accessible for
>> > > everyone,
>> > > > sighted and unsighted.
>> > > >
>> > > > Option B could mean extra cost for web designers, which they
may
>> > not
>> > > > like to incur. On the other hand some people who work entirely
>> > from
>> > > the
>> > > > keyboard tell us that Options A and C can mean far too many key
>> > > strokes
>> > > > for them.
>> > > >
>> > > > Question: Would it be a good idea for RNIB, as policy, to
>> > encourage
>> > > > designers of the more popular or important sites for
independent
>> > > > living, (grocery sites for example) to produce an option B
>> version?
>> > > >
>> > > > Thank you.
>> > > >
>> > > > Bim
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
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