[access-uk] Re: Webbie
- From: "Tristram Llewellyn" <tris-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:05:15 +0100
Just to take of Graham's last point about sighted helper being able to know
where the screen reader user is on a web page, particularly with Jaws. We
still do not have an actual nagivation cursor, but with Jaws 7.0 and 7.10 the
route Jaws to PC cursor insert+numpad minus should no be accurate enough to
give an indication of where a user is in speech on the visually laid out page.
In earlier versions you could use the keystroke but not be nearly as sure as to
it's accuracy. This is courtesy of the newer DCOM server technology built into
Jaws.
Regards.
Tristram Llewellyn
Sight and Sound Technology
Technical Support
www.sightandsound.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Page
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:06 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Webbie
the real problem with Hal is that as with all screenreaders, hot keys get
added over time and the whole thing eventually becomes a real mess and needs
redefining. This of course can cause existing users a problem but it is one
of the inevitabilities of increasing numbers of features.
Supernova has a lot of advantages including speech and magnification
combined into a serious and reasonably powerful product at a good price but
good context sensitive help is still a real weakness in Supernova which
needs serious redesign. Context sensitive help is in fact an area in which
JAWS and window-eyes use sensible systems as help is based around the f1
key. Hall uses something odd like right control, right shift, slash. Wow,
doesn't that trip off the tong nicely!!!!
it's really quite a tricky keystroke to press as well and I have found the
application specific help you do get is hardly comprehensive.
Dolphin does seem to be making real strides to get it's screenreading
facilities up to scratch, so good help to get beginners and reviewers up and
running quickly should I think be a priority. It would then be possible to
find all internet navigation keys and have them displayed with one
keystroke.
On another subject connected with Webbie, if the web page is displayed in a
standard read only edit box then I assume that at least a sighted person can
see what the blind user is reading without having to rely on the speech
which is tricky if you are not uwsed to it. can a sighted user see what a
blind person is reading with Supernova?
This has historically been a major issue with JAWS.
Cheers
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Harrison" <harrison1d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:00 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Webbie
I would not disagree with you Graham. I have no knowledge of Jaws,
but certainly Hal lacks a few of the more advanced navigation
techniques present in the later versions of Window-eyes. Still Hal
has improved greatly in this respect over the last 2 years or so, and
there may be a few more additions in the new version 7. One problem
is that of remembering all the available key strokes. I must admit
that I frequently fail to use one and go "the long way round".
I think that the simplified display of Webbie is really intended to
complement the Look Out/Thunder type of screen reader and avoid a
beginner being too disheartened when encountering fairly complex web
pages for the first time.
Douglas
On 5 Jun 2006 at 22:34, Graham Page wrote:
> Hi Douglas.
>
> I have deleted your original message but I thought you were suggesting
> that it was a good idea to use webbie with Hal. I generally thought that
> Webbie was really intended for use if your screenreader would not do the
> job.
>
> I find Hal's help a little erratic and I don't want to plough through a
> big manual just to find shortcut keys so maybe I haven't done Hal justice
> but I get the impression that it does not have the range of navigation
> keys that Window-eyes or JAWS has, such as navigation by list, checkbox,
> combo box, this page link, division, bulleted list etc. I believe you can
> navigate by frame, table,heading or edit box however and of course you can
> use the standard tab and shift tab to move between formfields/links. Am I
> broadly correct here? Does Webbie have similar functionality to hal or
> can it move by a wider range of element types?
>
> Cheers
>
> Graham
>
--
Douglas Harrison
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