Hello Derek,
People who lose their sight in later life often have less sensitivity in
their fingers and are not used to doing things by touch. The dot on the No.
5 is not always that prevalent and people who have been used to doing things
by sight, often are not so good at memorising visual displays.
Alison
dfoing
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 21 August 2015 21:26
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
I agree.
So does anyone know why RNIB campaigned for the banks to offer us a
choice chip and pin or chip and signature.
I do not understand why a blind person might have problems with chip
and Pin if their only disability was blindness.
So why can blind people opt out of chip and pin.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:36 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
There is a lady at my bank who always assumes I will have difficulty with
Chip and pin and offers to complete the form for me to sign. I find chip and
pin so easy compared with playing the "golden Shot", where it is up a bit,
down a bit, and fire!
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 21 August 2015 15:14
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
I don't know and I don't understand why anyone would want chip and sign,
because it's so easy to use PIN pads. Having said that, if you have
additional disabilities, then not so easy, but if you can dial a telephone,
I contend you can use a PIN pad for chip and PIN. So I've never understood
why blind people would want chip and sign. A blind person's sig is easier
to forge than most, because many of them just squiggle. I love Chip and
PIN.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 21 August 2015 12:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Steve
Let me put this another way.
Bank will allow choice for grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
Bank will not allow choice for one side of paper.
They feel that there is no need for a choice regarding one, or both
sides of paper, because they feel that's a preference issue.
Well is it not a preference issue regarding chip and pin, or chip and
signature!
Why are blind people allowed that choice!
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:36 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi,
I didn't. Moon is not a form of Braille. I was only talking of choices for
different types of Braille. Imagine how much that would cost to implement
to update the bank's database to include all those choices.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Eleanor burke
Sent: 21 August 2015 09:29
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
and why not if it meets the individuals needs and you left out moon!
On 21 Aug 2015, at 09:24, Steve Nutt <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:ask if
Hi Carol,
Oh no, don't introduce more choice. I can see the banks having to
you want single sided, double sided, interline, interpoint, grade 1or
2. See how impractical that is? Oh and don't even bring in jumboBraille.
Behalf
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted senderclose
"carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: 20 August 2015 16:05
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Yes, I agree, George, and also think that some people cannot read
lines and want them spaced (more like the Interlined Stainsby).is on
Carol P
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:05 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
I think you are being a bit unfair here, Steve.
Quite a few people do have actual difficulty reading braille which
both sides of the page. I have seen this for myself on quite a few
to feeloccasions, particularly where people have somehow got the ability
Behalfthe indents.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
printedOf Steve Nutt
Sent: 20 August 2015 08:47
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive and Derek,
Derek, do you think if someone asked for their print statement
equalsingle sided they would get it? Coulrse they wouldn't. I want
Behalfaccess, not favours.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
adverseOf Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 19 August 2015 17:44
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
I'm with the RNIB on this one. Not only that but there could be
impacts arising from having, say, grade 1 on one side of the paper
bankinstead of grade 2 on both. For some people this would make the
statements so fat that they'd be more likely to have a printed card
home.through the door when Royal Mail can't deliver it and you're not at
toIf you are a fluent grade 2 braille reader, grade 1 can be horrible
reasonableread, like wading through treacle. Finally, on the westion of
customers whatadjustments, if a comparable organisation can do for their
your bank is quibbling about doing on grounds of (it would not be a
severelyreasonable adjustment", their argument is, to say the least,
big dealweakend. "If it's reasonable for them to do it, why is it such a
Behalffor you?" and all that.
Hope this helps,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
BrailleOf Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 16:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive
No problem I was able to read your message, below.
here is a quote of what the bank is telling me:
"We have agreed with our suppliers the physical format for all
orstatements, and do not intend to offer choices in this.
Regardless
of the format of the statements, e.g. standard print, large print,
andbraille, we do not offer a bespoke range of options for the look
notThis would not be reasonable or expected.
The availability of grade 2 Braille is a different type of option,
paper."comparable to paper size or putting Braille on both sides of the
oer
My point is that given the fact they offer a choice, grade 1
orgrade
2 braille, why can they not offer a choice braille on one side,
here isboth sides of the paper.
Assuming the bank is using RNIB for the braille statements,
fromwhat RNIB says:
"in the case of a bank statement, there is a direct feed in to our
eitherthe bank or provider and we automatically produce the product
secure in
it to you or send it back to the provider. Your information is
surely theevery sense to exacting guidelines."
So if the software allows for a choice, grade 1 or grade 2
ofsame software can allow for braille on one side, or both sides
Behalfpaper.
I fidn it hard to believe such a a choice would cause high costs.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
asOf Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
Hoping you can read this. If you say that the message comes to you
stillblank, then please can someone else forward it off-list so you can
http://www.apaddedcell.com/what-s-the-difference-between-usability-andread the message.
There is a good article on the difference between usability and
accessibility at:
and-accessibility.
A simple Google search on "What's the difference between usability
I'veaccessibility" found it straight away. It seems to confirm the way
be:always perceived the difference between the two terms, which would
that is
Accessibility: Can I, my nan and my boss get all the information
butto be had?
Usability: Ok, so we can get all the information that's available,
seen
we get it without losing the will to live in the attempt. I've
that
where I could do everything I needed to do, but where everything
youcould get in your way and slow you down gets in your way and slows
onlydown. A classic example is a survey which boldly declared it should
andtake three minutes to complete, but because of the over-complicated
hour ofcluttered page layouts and designs would be three quarters of an
at theyour life you will never see again.
You accessed all the information and did what you came to do, but
Behalfend of the process you wish you hadn't bothered.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
trulyOf Derek Hornby
Sent: 18 August 2015 20:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi All
We often here about accessibility, but what does it really and
accessmean?
If one is able to access a web site, does that mean there is no
site.problem, or does it depend on how easy it is to access the web
problems,
If someone can use an iPhone does that mean there is no access
oneeven if the access is not so easy.
My bank offers its customers (the ones that use Braille)
a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
but if say customers wanted their Braille statements Braille on
should notside of brailed page, this is not an option for choice.
Surely given fact grade 1 or grade 2 Braille is a choice, it
on bothbe difficult to program software to allow for a choice, braile
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-sides of page, on just one side.
Derek
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