Are you certain a sighted person cannot use chip and sign, Derek? I'd be
surprised. It's not as though it involves additional expense or technology
for the bank. I'm certain, at least when chip and pin was initially
introduced, that people did have a choice.
Although I do prefer chip and pin, I do wish they could standardise the
machine. The one I used in Marks & Spencers yesterday was quite awkward as
the first row was almost tucked under the frame. Others I have used have
additional rows which make it a little slower finding the dot on the No. 5.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 21 August 2015 21:26
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
The point is:
I can make a choice, chip and pin or chip and signature.
We can make this choice simply because blind!
The banks won't allow a sighted non disabled person the same choice why
not!
I suggest that there could be many blind people that have stayed with the
old chip and signature system for no better reason they dislike change.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
So long as the information is accessible, even if we would prefer it on
thicker paper, single-sided, wider-spaced etc,. etc., does it matter?
Provided that we can read it, isn't that what counts?
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Eleanor burke
Sent: 21 August 2015 09:39
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
fair points Steve.
On 21 Aug 2015, at 09:36, Steve Nutt <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,
I didn't. Moon is not a form of Braille. I was only talking of
choices for different types of Braille. Imagine how much that would
cost to implement to update the bank's database to include all thosechoices.
Stainsby).
All the best
Steve
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Eleanor burke
Sent: 21 August 2015 09:29
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
and why not if it meets the individuals needs and you left out moon!
On 21 Aug 2015, at 09:24, Steve Nutt <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:grade
Hi Carol,
Oh no, don't introduce more choice. I can see the banks having to
ask if you want single sided, double sided, interline, interpoint,
grade 1 or
2. See how impractical that is? Oh and don't even bring in jumboBraille.
Of
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
"carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: 20 August 2015 16:05
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Yes, I agree, George, and also think that some people cannot read
close lines and want them spaced (more like the Interlined
Carol P
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:05 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
I think you are being a bit unfair here, Steve.
Quite a few people do have actual difficulty reading braille which
quiteis on both sides of the page. I have seen this for myself on
a few occasions, particularly where people have somehow got the
ability to feel
the indents.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 20 August 2015 08:47
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive and Derek,
Derek, do you think if someone asked for their print statement
printed single sided they would get it? Coulrse they wouldn't. I
awant equal access, not favours.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 19 August 2015 17:44
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
I'm with the RNIB on this one. Not only that but there could be
adverse impacts arising from having, say, grade 1 on one side of
the paper instead of grade 2 on both. For some people this would
make the bank statements so fat that they'd be more likely to have
you're not at home.printed card through the door when Royal Mail can't deliver it and
horrible
If you are a fluent grade 2 braille reader, grade 1 can be
ato read, like wading through treacle. Finally, on the westion of
reasonable adjustments, if a comparable organisation can do for
their customers what
your bank is quibbling about doing on grounds of (it would not be
reasonable adjustment", their argument is, to say the least,
severely weakend. "If it's reasonable for them to do it, why is it
such a big deal
for you?" and all that.
Hope this helps,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 16:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive
No problem I was able to read your message, below.
here is a quote of what the bank is telling me:
"We have agreed with our suppliers the physical format for all
Braille statements, and do not intend to offer choices in this.
Regardless
of the format of the statements, e.g. standard print, large print,
lookor braille, we do not offer a bespoke range of options for the
feel.and
This would not be reasonable or expected.
The availability of grade 2 Braille is a different type of option,
thenot comparable to paper size or putting Braille on both sides of
My point is that given the fact they offer a choice, grade 1
oer grade
2 braille, why can they not offer a choice braille on one side,
hereor both sides of the paper.
Assuming the bank is using RNIB for the braille statements,
is what RNIB says:
"in the case of a bank statement, there is a direct feed in to our
from the bank or provider and we automatically produce the product
surelysendeither
it to you or send it back to the provider. Your information is
secure in
every sense to exacting guidelines."
So if the software allows for a choice, grade 1 or grade 2
sidesthe
same software can allow for braille on one side, or both
of paper.
I fidn it hard to believe such a a choice would cause high costs.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
Hoping you can read this. If you say that the message comes to you
http://www.apaddedcell.com/what-s-the-difference-between-usability-aas blank, then please can someone else forward it off-list so you
can still read the message.
There is a good article on the difference between usability and
accessibility at:
nd
-accessibility.
A simple Google search on "What's the difference between usability
and accessibility" found it straight away. It seems to confirm the
whichway I've always perceived the difference between the two terms,
Accessibility: Can I, my nan and my boss get all the information
that is to be had?
Usability: Ok, so we can get all the information that's available,
seencanbut
we get it without losing the will to live in the attempt. I've
sitesdeclared
where I could do everything I needed to do, but where everything
that could get in your way and slow you down gets in your way and
slows you down. A classic example is a survey which boldly
atit should only take three minutes to complete, but because of the
over-complicated and cluttered page layouts and designs would be
three quarters of an hour of your life you will never see again.
You accessed all the information and did what you came to do, but
the webthe end of the process you wish you hadn't bothered.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 18 August 2015 20:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi All
We often here about accessibility, but what does it really and
truly mean?
If one is able to access a web site, does that mean there is no
access problem, or does it depend on how easy it is to access
If someone can use an iPhone does that mean there is no access
problems,
even if the access is not so easy.
My bank offers its customers (the ones that use Braille)
a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
but if say customers wanted their Braille statements Braille on
onone side of brailed page, this is not an option for choice.
Surely given fact grade 1 or grade 2 Braille is a choice, it
should not
be difficult to program software to allow for a choice, braile
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-both
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Derek
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