[access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

  • From: <Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:29:41 +0000

Hi Steve,

I've also heard it said that because of the squiggle, a blind person's
signature is harder to forge, so I wouldn't like to say which is right.


Best,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 21 August 2015 15:14
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Derek,

I don't know and I don't understand why anyone would want chip and sign,
because it's so easy to use PIN pads. Having said that, if you have additional
disabilities, then not so easy, but if you can dial a telephone, I contend you
can use a PIN pad for chip and PIN. So I've never understood why blind people
would want chip and sign. A blind person's sig is easier to forge than most,
because many of them just squiggle. I love Chip and PIN.

All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 21 August 2015 12:20
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Steve
Let me put this another way.

Bank will allow choice for grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
Bank will not allow choice for one side of paper.

They feel that there is no need for a choice regarding one, or both sides
of paper, because they feel that's a preference issue.

Well is it not a preference issue regarding chip and pin, or chip and
signature!
Why are blind people allowed that choice!

Derek



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:36 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi,

I didn't. Moon is not a form of Braille. I was only talking of choices for
different types of Braille. Imagine how much that would cost to implement to
update the bank's database to include all those choices.

All the best

Steve

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Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
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Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Eleanor burke
Sent: 21 August 2015 09:29
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

and why not if it meets the individuals needs and you left out moon!



On 21 Aug 2015, at 09:24, Steve Nutt <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Carol,

Oh no, don't introduce more choice. I can see the banks having to
ask if
you want single sided, double sided, interline, interpoint, grade 1
or
grade
2. See how impractical that is? Oh and don't even bring in jumbo
Braille.

All the best

Steve

--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of
Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
"carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: 20 August 2015 16:05
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Yes, I agree, George, and also think that some people cannot read
close
lines and want them spaced (more like the Interlined Stainsby).

Carol P

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:05 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.


I think you are being a bit unfair here, Steve.

Quite a few people do have actual difficulty reading braille which
is on
both sides of the page. I have seen this for myself on quite a few

occasions, particularly where people have somehow got the ability
to feel

the indents.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 20 August 2015 08:47
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Clive and Derek,

Derek, do you think if someone asked for their print statement
printed
single sided they would get it? Coulrse they wouldn't. I want
equal
access, not favours.

All the best

Steve

--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 19 August 2015 17:44
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Derek,

I'm with the RNIB on this one. Not only that but there could be
adverse
impacts arising from having, say, grade 1 on one side of the paper

instead of grade 2 on both. For some people this would make the
bank
statements so fat that they'd be more likely to have a printed card

through the door when Royal Mail can't deliver it and you're not at
home.

If you are a fluent grade 2 braille reader, grade 1 can be horrible
to
read, like wading through treacle. Finally, on the westion of
reasonable
adjustments, if a comparable organisation can do for their
customers what

your bank is quibbling about doing on grounds of (it would not be a

reasonable adjustment", their argument is, to say the least,
severely
weakend. "If it's reasonable for them to do it, why is it such a
big deal

for you?" and all that.

Hope this helps,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 16:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Clive
No problem I was able to read your message, below.

here is a quote of what the bank is telling me:


"We have agreed with our suppliers the physical format for all
Braille
statements, and do not intend to offer choices in this.
Regardless
of the format of the statements, e.g. standard print, large print,
or
braille, we do not offer a bespoke range of options for the look
and
feel.
This would not be reasonable or expected.

The availability of grade 2 Braille is a different type of option,
not
comparable to paper size or putting Braille on both sides of the
paper."

My point is that given the fact they offer a choice, grade 1
oer
grade
2 braille, why can they not offer a choice braille on one side,
or
both sides of the paper.

Assuming the bank is using RNIB for the braille statements,
here is
what RNIB says:

"in the case of a bank statement, there is a direct feed in to our
from
the bank or provider and we automatically produce the product
either
send

it to you or send it back to the provider. Your information is
secure in

every sense to exacting guidelines."

So if the software allows for a choice, grade 1 or grade 2
surely the

same software can allow for braille on one side, or both sides
of
paper.

I fidn it hard to believe such a a choice would cause high costs.

Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Derek,

Hoping you can read this. If you say that the message comes to you
as
blank, then please can someone else forward it off-list so you can
still
read the message.

There is a good article on the difference between usability and
accessibility at:

http://www.apaddedcell.com/what-s-the-difference-between-usability-and
-accessibility.

A simple Google search on "What's the difference between usability
and
accessibility" found it straight away. It seems to confirm the way
I've
always perceived the difference between the two terms, which would
be:

Accessibility: Can I, my nan and my boss get all the information
that is
to be had?
Usability: Ok, so we can get all the information that's available,
but
can

we get it without losing the will to live in the attempt. I've
seen
sites

where I could do everything I needed to do, but where everything
that
could get in your way and slow you down gets in your way and slows
you
down. A classic example is a survey which boldly declared it should
only
take three minutes to complete, but because of the over-complicated
and
cluttered page layouts and designs would be three quarters of an
hour of
your life you will never see again.
You accessed all the information and did what you came to do, but
at the
end of the process you wish you hadn't bothered.

Best,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 18 August 2015 20:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi All
We often here about accessibility, but what does it really and
truly
mean?

If one is able to access a web site, does that mean there is no
access
problem, or does it depend on how easy it is to access the web
site.

If someone can use an iPhone does that mean there is no access
problems,

even if the access is not so easy.

My bank offers its customers (the ones that use Braille)
a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
but if say customers wanted their Braille statements Braille on
one
side of brailed page, this is not an option for choice.

Surely given fact grade 1 or grade 2 Braille is a choice, it
should not

be difficult to program software to allow for a choice, braile
on both

sides of page, on just one side.

Derek

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