and why not if it meets the individuals needs and you left out moon!
On 21 Aug 2015, at 09:24, Steve Nutt <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
Hi Carol,
Oh no, don't introduce more choice. I can see the banks having to ask if
you want single sided, double sided, interline, interpoint, grade 1 or grade
2. See how impractical that is? Oh and don't even bring in jumbo Braille.
All the best
Steve
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
"carol.pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: 20 August 2015 16:05
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Yes, I agree, George, and also think that some people cannot read close
lines and want them spaced (more like the Interlined Stainsby).
Carol P
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:05 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
I think you are being a bit unfair here, Steve.
Quite a few people do have actual difficulty reading braille which is on
both sides of the page. I have seen this for myself on quite a few
occasions, particularly where people have somehow got the ability to feel
the indents.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 20 August 2015 08:47
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive and Derek,
Derek, do you think if someone asked for their print statement printed
single sided they would get it? Coulrse they wouldn't. I want equal
access, not favours.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 19 August 2015 17:44
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
I'm with the RNIB on this one. Not only that but there could be adverse
impacts arising from having, say, grade 1 on one side of the paper
instead of grade 2 on both. For some people this would make the bank
statements so fat that they'd be more likely to have a printed card
through the door when Royal Mail can't deliver it and you're not at home.
If you are a fluent grade 2 braille reader, grade 1 can be horrible to
read, like wading through treacle. Finally, on the westion of reasonable
adjustments, if a comparable organisation can do for their customers what
your bank is quibbling about doing on grounds of (it would not be a
reasonable adjustment", their argument is, to say the least, severely
weakend. "If it's reasonable for them to do it, why is it such a big deal
for you?" and all that.
Hope this helps,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 16:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive
No problem I was able to read your message, below.
here is a quote of what the bank is telling me:
"We have agreed with our suppliers the physical format for all Braille
statements, and do not intend to offer choices in this.
Regardless
of the format of the statements, e.g. standard print, large print, or
braille, we do not offer a bespoke range of options for the look and feel.
This would not be reasonable or expected.
The availability of grade 2 Braille is a different type of option, not
comparable to paper size or putting Braille on both sides of the paper."
My point is that given the fact they offer a choice, grade 1 oer
grade
2 braille, why can they not offer a choice braille on one side, or
both sides of the paper.
Assuming the bank is using RNIB for the braille statements, here is
what RNIB says:
"in the case of a bank statement, there is a direct feed in to our from
the bank or provider and we automatically produce the product either send
it to you or send it back to the provider. Your information is secure in
every sense to exacting guidelines."
So if the software allows for a choice, grade 1 or grade 2 surely the
same software can allow for braille on one side, or both sides of
paper.
I fidn it hard to believe such a a choice would cause high costs.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
Hoping you can read this. If you say that the message comes to you as
blank, then please can someone else forward it off-list so you can still
read the message.
There is a good article on the difference between usability and
accessibility at:
http://www.apaddedcell.com/what-s-the-difference-between-usability-and
-accessibility.
A simple Google search on "What's the difference between usability and
accessibility" found it straight away. It seems to confirm the way I've
always perceived the difference between the two terms, which would be:
Accessibility: Can I, my nan and my boss get all the information that is
to be had?
Usability: Ok, so we can get all the information that's available, but can
we get it without losing the will to live in the attempt. I've seen sites
where I could do everything I needed to do, but where everything that
could get in your way and slow you down gets in your way and slows you
down. A classic example is a survey which boldly declared it should only
take three minutes to complete, but because of the over-complicated and
cluttered page layouts and designs would be three quarters of an hour of
your life you will never see again.
You accessed all the information and did what you came to do, but at the
end of the process you wish you hadn't bothered.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 18 August 2015 20:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi All
We often here about accessibility, but what does it really and truly
mean?
If one is able to access a web site, does that mean there is no access
problem, or does it depend on how easy it is to access the web site.
If someone can use an iPhone does that mean there is no access problems,
even if the access is not so easy.
My bank offers its customers (the ones that use Braille)
a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
but if say customers wanted their Braille statements Braille on one
side of brailed page, this is not an option for choice.
Surely given fact grade 1 or grade 2 Braille is a choice, it should not
be difficult to program software to allow for a choice, braile on both
sides of page, on just one side.
Derek
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