could not agree more George and disappointed with Steve's response to this.
On 20 Aug 2015, at 14:05, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
I think you are being a bit unfair here, Steve.
Quite a few people do have actual difficulty reading braille which is on both
sides of the page. I have seen this for myself on quite a few occasions,
particularly where people have somehow got the ability to feel the indents.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 20 August 2015 08:47
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive and Derek,
Derek, do you think if someone asked for their print statement printed single
sided they would get it? Coulrse they wouldn't. I want equal access, not
favours.
All the best
Steve
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 19 August 2015 17:44
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
I'm with the RNIB on this one. Not only that but there could be adverse
impacts arising from having, say, grade 1 on one side of the paper instead
of grade 2 on both. For some people this would make the bank statements so
fat that they'd be more likely to have a printed card through the door when
Royal Mail can't deliver it and you're not at home. If you are a fluent grade
2 braille reader, grade 1 can be horrible to read, like wading through
treacle. Finally, on the westion of reasonable adjustments, if a comparable
organisation can do for their customers what your bank is quibbling about
doing on grounds of (it would not be a reasonable adjustment", their argument
is, to say the least, severely weakend. "If it's reasonable for them to do
it, why is it such a big deal for you?" and all that.
Hope this helps,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 16:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive
No problem I was able to read your message, below.
here is a quote of what the bank is telling me:
"We have agreed with our suppliers the physical format for all Braille
statements, and do not intend to offer choices in this.
Regardless
of the format of the statements, e.g. standard print, large print, or
braille, we do not offer a bespoke range of options for the look and feel.
This would not be reasonable or expected.
The availability of grade 2 Braille is a different type of option, not
comparable to paper size or putting Braille on both sides of the paper."
My point is that given the fact they offer a choice, grade 1 oer grade
2 braille, why can they not offer a choice braille on one side, or both
sides of the paper.
Assuming the bank is using RNIB for the braille statements, here is what
RNIB says:
"in the case of a bank statement, there is a direct feed in to our from the
bank or provider and we automatically produce the product either send it to
you or send it back to the provider. Your information is secure in every
sense to exacting guidelines."
So if the software allows for a choice, grade 1 or grade 2 surely the
same software can allow for braille on one side, or both sides of paper.
I fidn it hard to believe such a a choice would cause high costs.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
Hoping you can read this. If you say that the message comes to you as blank,
then please can someone else forward it off-list so you can still read the
message.
There is a good article on the difference between usability and accessibility
at:
http://www.apaddedcell.com/what-s-the-difference-between-usability-and
-accessibility.
A simple Google search on "What's the difference between usability and
accessibility" found it straight away. It seems to confirm the way I've
always perceived the difference between the two terms, which would be:
Accessibility: Can I, my nan and my boss get all the information that is to
be had?
Usability: Ok, so we can get all the information that's available, but can we
get it without losing the will to live in the attempt. I've seen sites where
I could do everything I needed to do, but where everything that could get in
your way and slow you down gets in your way and slows you down. A classic
example is a survey which boldly declared it should only take three minutes
to complete, but because of the over-complicated and cluttered page layouts
and designs would be three quarters of an hour of your life you will never
see again.
You accessed all the information and did what you came to do, but at the end
of the process you wish you hadn't bothered.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 18 August 2015 20:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi All
We often here about accessibility, but what does it really and truly mean?
If one is able to access a web site, does that mean there is no access
problem, or does it depend on how easy it is to access the web site.
If someone can use an iPhone does that mean there is no access problems,
even if the access is not so easy.
My bank offers its customers (the ones that use Braille)
a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
but if say customers wanted their Braille statements Braille on one side
of brailed page, this is not an option for choice.
Surely given fact grade 1 or grade 2 Braille is a choice, it should not be
difficult to program software to allow for a choice, braile on both sides
of page, on just one side.
Derek
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