[access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

  • From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:52:04 +0100

Hi Eleanor,

Actually you don't need an embosser set up at all, it's just a programmable
switch in Duxbury. If you already have double sided, it's easy to produce
single. But print users can't select whether they want single or double
side, so why should we?

All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Eleanor burke
Sent: 19 August 2015 19:22
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

they obviously don't have an embosser set up for a single page Braille.



On 19 Aug 2015, at 18:55, Derek Hornby <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Hi Alison
yes the issue I have with bank is that they offer
a choice, grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
So customers can make their own choice.
That's just fine, no problems with that.

But the bank will not allow a choice regarding Braille on one
side of paper.
So one can choose grade 1 Braille,
one can choose grade 2 Braille,
but whether it's grade 1 or grade 2 you can not choose
Braille on one side of paper.
And that's the bit I don't understand.
AS clear reasons not given

Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 6:14 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

I suspect Clive misunderstood - or maybe I have? I think you are
asking why
you don't have the choice of single-sided braille or double-sided
braille
whereas I think Clive thought you were asking for the ability to have
grade
1 on one side and grade 2 on the other.
Thankfully all my bank statements, BT statement and Guide Dog
magazines are
still coming through in Standard English Braille.
Alison

and that you are tnot y

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 17:57
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Clive

Pleasse read my message again.

They are allowing customers to choose, grade 1 or grade 2
Braille.

They are not allowing customers to choose, Braille on one side or
both
sides of paper.

So why are you against choice?

Regards, Derek

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Derek,

I'm with the RNIB on this one. Not only that but there could be
adverse
impacts arising from having, say, grade 1 on one side of the paper
instead
of grade 2 on both. For some people this would make the bank
statements so
fat that they'd be more likely to have a printed card through the door
when
Royal Mail can't deliver it and you're not at home. If you are a
fluent
grade 2 braille reader, grade 1 can be horrible to read, like wading
through
treacle. Finally, on the westion of reasonable adjustments, if a
comparable
organisation can do for their customers what your bank is quibbling
about
doing on grounds of (it would not be a reasonable adjustment", their
argument is, to say the least, severely weakend. "If it's reasonable
for
them to do it, why is it such a big deal for you?" and all that.

Hope this helps,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 16:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Clive
No problem I was able to read your message, below.

here is a quote of what the bank is telling me:


"We have agreed with our suppliers the physical format for all Braille
statements, and do not intend to offer choices in this.
Regardless
of the format of the statements, e.g. standard print, large print, or
braille, we do not offer a bespoke range of options for the look and
feel.
This would not be reasonable or expected.

The availability of grade 2 Braille is a different type of option, not
comparable to paper size or putting Braille on both sides of the
paper."

My point is that given the fact they offer a choice, grade 1 oer
grade
2 braille, why can they not offer a choice braille on one side, or
both
sides of the paper.

Assuming the bank is using RNIB for the braille statements, here
is what
RNIB says:

"in the case of a bank statement, there is a direct feed in to our
from the
bank or provider and we automatically produce the product either send
it to
you or send it back to the provider. Your information is secure in
every
sense to exacting guidelines."

So if the software allows for a choice, grade 1 or grade 2 surely
the
same software can allow for braille on one side, or both sides of
paper.

I fidn it hard to believe such a a choice would cause high costs.

Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi Derek,

Hoping you can read this. If you say that the message comes to you as
blank,
then please can someone else forward it off-list so you can still read
the
message.

There is a good article on the difference between usability and
accessibility at:
http://www.apaddedcell.com/what-s-the-difference-between-usability-and
-accessibility.

A simple Google search on "What's the difference between usability and
accessibility" found it straight away. It seems to confirm the way
I've
always perceived the difference between the two terms, which would be:

Accessibility: Can I, my nan and my boss get all the information that
is to
be had?
Usability: Ok, so we can get all the information that's available, but
can
we get it without losing the will to live in the attempt. I've seen
sites
where I could do everything I needed to do, but where everything that
could
get in your way and slow you down gets in your way and slows you down.
A
classic example is a survey which boldly declared it should only take
three
minutes to complete, but because of the over-complicated and cluttered
page
layouts and designs would be three quarters of an hour of your life
you will
never see again.
You accessed all the information and did what you came to do, but at
the
end of the process you wish you hadn't bothered.

Best,
Clive



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 18 August 2015 20:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] The meaning of: accessibility.

Hi All
We often here about accessibility, but what does it really and truly
mean?

If one is able to access a web site, does that mean there is no
access
problem, or does it depend on how easy it is to access the web site.

If someone can use an iPhone does that mean there is no access
problems,
even if the access is not so easy.

My bank offers its customers (the ones that use Braille)
a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
but if say customers wanted their Braille statements Braille on one
side
of brailed page, this is not an option for choice.

Surely given fact grade 1 or grade 2 Braille is a choice, it should
not be
difficult to program software to allow for a choice, braile on both
sides
of page, on just one side.

Derek

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