I think the case for Grade 1 or 2 is very different. Some people have never
moved onto Grade 2 so sending documents in Grade 2 would not make the
document accessible. Whereas, although a person might prefer single-sided
braille, it does not become inaccessible should it arrive in double sided
braille.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 19:37
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Well the same argument is just as true for grade
1 or grade 2 Braille.
They let customers choose, grade 1 or grade 2
So how does the embosser allow that choice!
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Eleanor burke
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 7:22 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
they obviously don't have an embosser set up for a single page Braille.
On 19 Aug 2015, at 18:55, Derek Hornby<derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
have
Hi Alison
yes the issue I have with bank is that they offer a choice, grade 1
or grade 2 Braille.
So customers can make their own choice.
That's just fine, no problems with that.
But the bank will not allow a choice regarding Braille on one side
of paper.
So one can choose grade 1 Braille,
one can choose grade 2 Braille,
but whether it's grade 1 or grade 2 you can not choose Braille on
one side of paper.
And that's the bit I don't understand.
AS clear reasons not given
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of CJ &AA MAY
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 6:14 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
I suspect Clive misunderstood - or maybe I have? I think you are
asking why you don't have the choice of single-sided braille or
double-sided braille whereas I think Clive thought you were asking for
the ability to
gradedoor
1 on one side and grade 2 on the other.
Thankfully all my bank statements, BT statement and Guide Dog
magazines are still coming through in Standard English Braille.
Alison
and that you are tnot y
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 17:57
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive
Pleasse read my message again.
They are allowing customers to choose, grade 1 or grade 2
Braille.
They are not allowing customers to choose, Braille on one side or
both sides of paper.
So why are you against choice?
Regards, Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
I'm with the RNIB on this one. Not only that but there could be
adverse impacts arising from having, say, grade 1 on one side of the
paper instead of grade 2 on both. For some people this would make the
bank statements so fat that they'd be more likely to have a printed
card through the
whenBraille
Royal Mail can't deliver it and you're not at home. If you are a
fluent grade 2 braille reader, grade 1 can be horrible to read, like
wading through treacle. Finally, on the westion of reasonable
adjustments, if a comparable organisation can do for their customers
what your bank is quibbling about doing on grounds of (it would not be
a reasonable adjustment", their argument is, to say the least,
severely weakend. "If it's reasonable for them to do it, why is it
such a big deal for you?" and all that.
Hope this helps,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 19 August 2015 16:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Clive
No problem I was able to read your message, below.
here is a quote of what the bank is telling me:
"We have agreed with our suppliers the physical format for all
statements, and do not intend to offer choices in this.or
Regardless
of the format of the statements, e.g. standard print, large print,
braille, we do not offer a bespoke range of options for the look andnot
feel.
This would not be reasonable or expected.
The availability of grade 2 Braille is a different type of option,
comparable to paper size or putting Braille on both sides of theoer
paper."
My point is that given the fact they offer a choice, grade 1
gradeor
2 braille, why can they not offer a choice braille on one side,
bothsend
sides of the paper.
Assuming the bank is using RNIB for the braille statements, here
is what RNIB says:
"in the case of a bank statement, there is a direct feed in to our
from the bank or provider and we automatically produce the product
either
it toof
you or send it back to the provider. Your information is secure in
every sense to exacting guidelines."
So if the software allows for a choice, grade 1 or grade 2 surely
the same software can allow for braille on one side, or both sides
paper.as
I fidn it hard to believe such a a choice would cause high costs.
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:44 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi Derek,
Hoping you can read this. If you say that the message comes to you
blank,read
then please can someone else forward it off-list so you can still
thehttp://www.apaddedcell.com/what-s-the-difference-between-usability-and
message.
There is a good article on the difference between usability and
accessibility at:
-accessibility.and
A simple Google search on "What's the difference between usability
accessibility" found it straight away. It seems to confirm the waybe:
I've always perceived the difference between the two terms, which
would
that
Accessibility: Can I, my nan and my boss get all the information
is tobut
be had?
Usability: Ok, so we can get all the information that's available,
canthat
we get it without losing the will to live in the attempt. I've seen
sites where I could do everything I needed to do, but where everything
coulddown.
get in your way and slow you down gets in your way and slows you
Atake
classic example is a survey which boldly declared it should only
threecluttered
minutes to complete, but because of the over-complicated and
pagetruly
layouts and designs would be three quarters of an hour of your life
you will never see again.
You accessed all the information and did what you came to do, but at
the end of the process you wish you hadn't bothered.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 18 August 2015 20:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] The meaning of: accessibility.
Hi All
We often here about accessibility, but what does it really and
mean?site.
If one is able to access a web site, does that mean there is no
access problem, or does it depend on how easy it is to access the
web
one
If someone can use an iPhone does that mean there is no access
problems, even if the access is not so easy.
My bank offers its customers (the ones that use Braille)
a choice grade 1 or grade 2 Braille.
but if say customers wanted their Braille statements Braille on
sideshould
of brailed page, this is not an option for choice.
Surely given fact grade 1 or grade 2 Braille is a choice, it
not beboth
difficult to program software to allow for a choice, braile on
sides** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
of page, on just one side.
Derek
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