Hi Marie,
Cheers,
yes, george, that makes a lot of sense to me and I can visualize tables a lot better now.
Like Carol, I do not use or understand tables much simply because having been blind from birth my concept of an overview, a spatial image is very limited.
I probably should have been helpt in this regard by my specialist education but in my days, at the school I was taught, it was more important to learn about the ancient gaulois rather than to grapple with practical things. I know that blind children are given more appropriate education nowadays.
Can't grumble, at least they taught me to write and speak English and I could thank them for this everyday.
Cheers now,
Marie
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Table Layout - was Tesco Check Out for Carol
Hi Carol,
I'll take a stab at describing very, very simple tables to you. (Make no mistake, the following text may well be used by me in a braille software product I work with, so it will be good practice for me! Smile)
Imagine a row of say 7 empty boxes, lying on their side so that you can put your hand in the front. Note my use of the word "row".
Now let us suppose we are going to use these 7 boxes to put something in for each day of the week. But how do we know which box is which? The simplest way is to put another closed box on top of each of the open boxes, and then write the day of the week on each box. Let's start with Sunday on the left, then Monday, Tuesday, etc., through to Saturday which will be on the far right.
So now you have two rows of boxes, and seven columns, each column being two boxes high, with the name of each day at the top. (Note the use of the word "column".
As we have many things to do during the week, we could write lots of notes and pop them into the appropriate box. If we were on medication, we might also want to put our day's ration of pills in the boxes, rather like we might use one of those medicinal pill boxes with the days of the week in braille on the covers.
But if we did that, our notes would get mixed up with our pills. So what's the solution? We add another row of boxes under the seven we already have, and put notes in one, and pills in the other.
Ah, but which of the two boxes in each column do we put things into? The solution is to add another column of three closed boxes on the left. The top one we perhaps mark "Days of the week", the second one "Notes", and the third one "Pills". Now we can tell what is in each row.
So now, you can easily go to either a day of the week, underneath which you will find your notes, and below that your pills.
But then you go to your doctor, and he gives you a prescription where you need to start taking extra pills today Thursday), hence you need to add these to the "Pills" row.
So you look down the left hand column of descriptions, until you find the "Pills" row, and then you look along that row, also looking at the top row of "Days" until you get to "Thursday" - in start putting the new pills into the pill boxes.
So now you have a table with columns representing days of the week, and rows for different things to be done on each day.
Am I making any sense?
George.
-----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carol Pearson Sent: 20 April 2006 12:08 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco Check Out for Carol
I'm using Jaws. I have used tables a little but don't have too much use for them. I don't really understand the layout, that's the problem. Contrary to Steve's thinking, I believe that some blind people have a much better grasp than others of layout and that's maybe why I don't understand what I have to do there to select a day and time.
I appreciate your question. Thanks for showing an interest.
Carol
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Robinson" <ian.subs1@xxxxxxxxxx To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:39:37 +0100 Subject: [access-uk] Tesco Check Out for Carol
Hi Carol,
First of all, which screen reader are you using?
Regards.
Ian
----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Pearson" <carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history
Hi Steve,
blind, don'tThat doesn't help me to understand the page (because I'mthings)forget, and don't have too much conception of theseand I don't know exactly what you look for first.
hardly thinkOK: no doubt someone will come up with the goodies! Ithethis is a day's training and trainers may be better offwill and willlist if they're going to keep beefing about what theynot help with on list.
way, andGeorge is a fine example of going that extra mile, by theI'm sure glad he's around.
myNow, I'm not meaning to stick the knife at all, but it'sexperience that some of us find this tech stuff prettyhard goingthese days and we need all the help we can get.
Thanks to all those who give it willingly and free ofcharge.
CAROL - who's sorry she sometimes just has to speak hermind!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:54:49 +0100 Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history
Hi Carol,
and someAbsolutely not. I consider it screen reader training,know yourof us needto make a living <Smile>. But the trick is to get toscreentablenavigation mode in JAWS. It is certainly do-able in bothreaders.Hal, I am not sure about, as I have never tried it.
users.All the best -- Computer Room Services: the long cane for blind computerTelephone Low-call: 08452 606 277 International: +44(0)1438 742286, Fax: +44(0)1438 759589 mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk
users.All the best -- Computer Room Services: the long cane for blind computerTelephone Low-call: 08452 606 277 International: +44(0)1438 742286, Fax: +44(0)1438 759589 mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On-----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxBehalf OfCarol Pearson Sent: 19 April 2006 22:59 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history
Steve,
reallyI think the problem also may be that some of us don'teither,understand thelayout and some JAWS users have said they can't do itbecause,includingmyself - so forget this "techy payment" thing and just give us some pointers on the mailing listafter all,that's what most of us are here for! <Smile
Carol
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:40:28 +0100 Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history
Hi Sandra,
aYou just need to use your table navigation keys to bookplus VAT fordelivery slot onthe main site. If you like, you can pay me a tennerthe phone.an hour'straining, and I'll take you through it in real time onuse thatIt is notat all difficult. There is really no reason at all tocrappyaccess site.
computer users.All the best -- Computer Room Services: the long cane for blindTelephone Low-call: 08452 606 277 International: +44(0)1438 742286, Fax: +44(0)1438 759589 mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk
[mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On-----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxBehalf OfSandra Henshall Sent: 18 April 2006 18:09 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history
theyIt's been nearly a year now since Tesco informed us thatit out. Iwere amendingthe access site and were looking for volunteers to tryme in twoput myname down at that time and they said they would contactsay theweeks.They didn't and there was no new access site. Now theyonce againnew accesssite will be up and running in July I think it is andTesco. IfI put myname down to try it out. Once again, no response fromsure thethey don'twant to run the access site, then why don't they makepay formain site istotally accessible. I do actually use the main site butto book amy shoppingon the access site because I haven't yet worked out howaccessdeliveryslot on the main site. It's about time they ditched thefriendly.sitealtogether and made the main site screen readerJust my two pence worth.
Cheers, Sandra.
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