Hi George, I must admit, that is the best description of tables I have seen for a long time. I learned the concept of them at RNC when I did my audio typing course, but I don't remember the description being that good. So what you need to do in the case of Tesco, is to move through the table with JAWS, using control-alt-up, down, left and right. So if you control-alt-right from the first column and row to the day of the week you want, then control-alt-down to the time you want, if that time is available, you should hear a link giving the price of the service. Press enter on that link, then you have booked your delivery slot. If the time you want is not available, then you won't hear anything in the case of Window-Eyes, but I haven't tried it with JAWS lately. However, the process should be the same. The way to confirm what day you are on, is to read the top row, and the way to find out what time you are on, is to read the beginning of the row you are currently on. In other words, to use George's excellent description as an example, the days of the week are going across, and the boxes of pills are going downwards. But you can't just read down with your screen reader without utilising table navigation in this mode, because Virtual PC Cursor mode decolumnises everything, so it then doesn't make sense. So in this case, table navigation is the only solution. This is why I said it was quite tricky. It is quite hard for me to explain to you without you being in front of your screen reader, but if this helps, that's great. And again, I am not trying to be patronising, it is just that putting it over for me is tricky. Thanks George for the description. All the best -- Computer Room Services: the long cane for blind computer users. Telephone Low-call: 08452 606 277 International: +44(0)1438 742286, Fax: +44(0)1438 759589 mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of George Bell Sent: 20 April 2006 13:44 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Table Layout - was Tesco Check Out for Carol Hi Carol, I'll take a stab at describing very, very simple tables to you. (Make no mistake, the following text may well be used by me in a braille software product I work with, so it will be good practice for me! Smile) Imagine a row of say 7 empty boxes, lying on their side so that you can put your hand in the front. Note my use of the word "row". Now let us suppose we are going to use these 7 boxes to put something in for each day of the week. But how do we know which box is which? The simplest way is to put another closed box on top of each of the open boxes, and then write the day of the week on each box. Let's start with Sunday on the left, then Monday, Tuesday, etc., through to Saturday which will be on the far right. So now you have two rows of boxes, and seven columns, each column being two boxes high, with the name of each day at the top. (Note the use of the word "column". As we have many things to do during the week, we could write lots of notes and pop them into the appropriate box. If we were on medication, we might also want to put our day's ration of pills in the boxes, rather like we might use one of those medicinal pill boxes with the days of the week in braille on the covers. But if we did that, our notes would get mixed up with our pills. So what's the solution? We add another row of boxes under the seven we already have, and put notes in one, and pills in the other. Ah, but which of the two boxes in each column do we put things into? The solution is to add another column of three closed boxes on the left. The top one we perhaps mark "Days of the week", the second one "Notes", and the third one "Pills". Now we can tell what is in each row. So now, you can easily go to either a day of the week, underneath which you will find your notes, and below that your pills. But then you go to your doctor, and he gives you a prescription where you need to start taking extra pills today Thursday), hence you need to add these to the "Pills" row. So you look down the left hand column of descriptions, until you find the "Pills" row, and then you look along that row, also looking at the top row of "Days" until you get to "Thursday" - in start putting the new pills into the pill boxes. So now you have a table with columns representing days of the week, and rows for different things to be done on each day. Am I making any sense? George. -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carol Pearson Sent: 20 April 2006 12:08 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco Check Out for Carol I'm using Jaws. I have used tables a little but don't have too much use for them. I don't really understand the layout, that's the problem. Contrary to Steve's thinking, I believe that some blind people have a much better grasp than others of layout and that's maybe why I don't understand what I have to do there to select a day and time. I appreciate your question. Thanks for showing an interest. Carol > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ian Robinson" <ian.subs1@xxxxxxxxxx >To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:39:37 +0100 >Subject: [access-uk] Tesco Check Out for Carol >Hi Carol, >First of all, which screen reader are you using? >Regards. >Ian >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Carol Pearson" <carol.pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxx >To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:27 AM >Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history >> Hi Steve, >> That doesn't help me to understand the page (because I'm blind, don't >> forget, and don't have too much conception of these things) >> and I don't know exactly what you look for first. >> OK: no doubt someone will come up with the goodies! I hardly think >> this is a day's training and trainers may be better off the >> list if they're going to keep beefing about what they will and will >> not help with on list. >> George is a fine example of going that extra mile, by the way, and >> I'm sure glad he's around. >> Now, I'm not meaning to stick the knife at all, but it's my >> experience that some of us find this tech stuff pretty hard going >> these days and we need all the help we can get. >> Thanks to all those who give it willingly and free of charge. >> CAROL - who's sorry she sometimes just has to speak her mind! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:54:49 +0100 >>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history >>>Hi Carol, >>>Absolutely not. I consider it screen reader training, and some >> of us need >>>to make a living <Smile>. But the trick is to get to know your >> table >>>navigation mode in JAWS. It is certainly do-able in both screen >> readers. >>>Hal, I am not sure about, as I have never tried it. >>>All the best >>>-- >>>Computer Room Services: the long cane for blind computer users. >>>Telephone Low-call: 08452 606 277 >>>International: +44(0)1438 742286, >>>Fax: +44(0)1438 759589 >>>mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, >>>Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk >>>All the best >>>-- >>>Computer Room Services: the long cane for blind computer users. >>>Telephone Low-call: 08452 606 277 >>>International: +44(0)1438 742286, >>>Fax: +44(0)1438 759589 >>>mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, >>>Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On >> Behalf Of >>>Carol Pearson >>>Sent: 19 April 2006 22:59 >>>To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history >>>Steve, >>>I think the problem also may be that some of us don't really >> understand the >>>layout and some JAWS users have said they can't do it either, >> including >>>myself - so forget this "techy payment" >>>thing and just give us some pointers on the mailing list because, >> after all, >>>that's what most of us are here for! <Smile >>>Carol >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:40:28 +0100 >>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history >>>>Hi Sandra, >>>>You just need to use your table navigation keys to book a >>>delivery slot on >>>>the main site. If you like, you can pay me a tenner plus VAT for >>>an hour's >>>>training, and I'll take you through it in real time on the phone. >>>It is not >>>>at all difficult. There is really no reason at all to use that >>>crappy >>>>access site. >>>>All the best >>>>-- >>>>Computer Room Services: the long cane for blind computer users. >>>>Telephone Low-call: 08452 606 277 >>>>International: +44(0)1438 742286, >>>>Fax: +44(0)1438 759589 >>>>mobile: +44(0)7956 334938, >>>>Email: mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>Web site: http://www.comproom.co.uk >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On >>>Behalf Of >>>>Sandra Henshall >>>>Sent: 18 April 2006 18:09 >>>>To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>Subject: [access-uk] Re: Tesco.com/access order history >>>>It's been nearly a year now since Tesco informed us that they >>>were amending >>>>the access site and were looking for volunteers to try it out. I >>>put my >>>>name down at that time and they said they would contact me in two >>>weeks. >>>>They didn't and there was no new access site. Now they say the >>>new access >>>>site will be up and running in July I think it is and once again >>>I put my >>>>name down to try it out. Once again, no response from Tesco. If >>>they don't >>>>want to run the access site, then why don't they make sure the >>>main site is >>>>totally accessible. I do actually use the main site but pay for >>>my shopping >>>>on the access site because I haven't yet worked out how to book a >>>delivery >>>>slot on the main site. It's about time they ditched the access >>>site >>>>altogether and made the main site screen reader friendly. >>>>Just my two pence worth. >>>>Cheers, >>>>Sandra. >>>>** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- >>>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] >>>>** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: >>>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>** and in the Subject line type >>>>** unsubscribe >>>>** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the >>>>** immediately-following link:- >>>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] >>>>** or send a message, to >>>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq >>>>** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- >>>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] >>>>** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: >>>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>** and in the Subject line type >>>>** unsubscribe >>>>** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the >>>>** immediately-following link:- >>>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] >>>>** or send a message, to >>>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq >>>** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- >>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] >>>** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: >>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>** and in the Subject line type >>>** unsubscribe >>>** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the >>>** immediately-following link:- >>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] >>>** or send a message, to >>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq >>>** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- >>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] >>>** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: >>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>** and in the Subject line type >>>** unsubscribe >>>** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the >>>** immediately-following link:- >>>** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] >>>** or send a message, to >>>** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- >> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] >> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: >> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> ** and in the Subject line type >> ** unsubscribe >> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the >> ** immediately-following link:- >> ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] >> ** or send a message, to >> ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq >> __________ NOD32 1.1497 (20060419) Information __________ >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- >** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] >** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: >** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >** and in the Subject line type >** unsubscribe >** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the >** immediately-following link:- >** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] >** or send a message, to >** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq