All good points Aman and I agree totally. I've never doubted that the RP is a great tinker-toy. I won't say any more now unless it's specifically about accessibility because we're in danger of boring those who have no knowledge of or interest in the RP.
Mike----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman Singer" <aman.singer@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:18 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Raspberry PI
Hi, Mike and all. I don't think the RP is really to teach young people how to be programmers, rather, it's to teach them how to be tinkerers. This is entirely my view, based on nothing at all from the people behind the RP. Programming can be learned on the PC, but tinkering, that is, puttinghardware and software together, is easier to learn on a device like the RP.Aman -----Original Message-----From: access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Michael Ray Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:43 AM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Raspberry PI I haven't missed the point of the Raspberry Pi at all. The guys that have created it have been heard on Radio Four saying the way ICT is taught in schools does nothing more than teach kids how to be a secretary and that Microsoft is god. I agree with that sentiment. But the way to teach a kid how to be a programmer is different now than it was thirty years ago.Sure it is good for running a webcam, or as a data-logger, as a radio ham I could probably find uses for it in my radio shack. But it is never going to fire-up thousands of kids imaginations when they would be better off with aPC and one of the thousands of downloadable and free programming tools around. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan H" <digitaltoast@xxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:10 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Raspberry PI I can't help but think that a few people here have massively missed the point of the Raspberry PI. It wasn't primarily designed to be "a computer to use as a PC", it was designed to be a learning tool or something to use when a traditional PC isn't viable. For example, I don't want to leave 300 watts of base unit PC running 24 hours a day just to run a webcam, a night-vision camera and upload data from a weather station every 5 minutes. So a PI can sit there using about 3 watts doing all of the above.The fact that it has HDMI HD output and can play blu-ray quality media is abonus and has certainly helped enthusiasm beyond the core educational market.But what the PI is more about is learning the core principles; if I connectan LED to that pin and type this command, I can make the LED light up. If I carefully apply 5 volts to this other pin, I can make a loudspeaker say "ouch". You say you "doubt the ability of the Raspberry Pi to fire the imagination of young prospective developers" but it's already sold around 750,000 units, back-orders are running at 2 million currently shipping lateDecember and they are making 2,000 a day in Wales and 4,000 a day in China.There's no reason at all why it shouldn't run vinux - it seems kind of pointless to have one computer SSH into another computer when the second computer is technically able to run Vinux, it's just the community willpower it needs. According to the last message in this list: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/vinux-support/i2na-lY8MYs/ 6zJTtq7WIeoJ"Debian for arm does list espeak espeakup and speakup so guessing that is agood start". If you want to go simpler still, try something like Arduino or its Freeduino clone; for as little as £15 you can get an established and pre-assembed prototyping board with loads of digital and analogue inputs and outputs. In fact, I'm close to building a light-operated chicken run door opener and closer for around £25 including solar panel, motor, light sensor, breadboard, battery etc. As a bonus it will measure and storeexactly how many hours or sunshine there were each day and what time it gotlight/dark enough to activate the motor to pull the door. Incidentally, you don't HAVE to use Python to programme the PI - a friendof mine has written an internet enabled remote door-unlocking device with adisplay, pin-pad, All these things are what you make of them!On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Michael Ray <mike.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:Aman, Steve etc. Without hijacking the list to go on and on about the Raspberry Pi, Aman you have hit on the very issue which makes me doubt the ability of the Raspberry Pi to fire the imagination of young prospective developers.Connecting via SSH into the Pi may well be very easy...from your PC. YourPC is obviously connected to the internet and you are running access software which gives you the ability to use it. My point is...why should any young person mess with the Raspberry Pi whenall they have to do if they want to learn how to program is browse the Weband download one of the thousands of different development tools available? Asking a teenager to connect to the Raspberry Pi with the family PC and learn how to program is like giving them a Ferrari to drive to a remote location where a bike is waiting for them to play with. I will probably have a fiddle with the Pi at some time in the future, but only because, like the guys that developed it, I have nostalgia for thedays of text-only screens on the first computers to make it into the home,when making a dot cross the screen and shoot a pixellated ghost was state-of-the-art Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman Singer" <aman.singer@xxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Raspberry PI Hi, Mike and all.I'm afraid I've reached the end of my not very considerable resources with the PI I have here. I would, of course, love to hear from anyone who has gotten further with it than I have, or who has any better ideas. My difficulty is really a lack of Linux knowledge and an inability to solder. First, the unit is perfectly accessible to get started with over the network. I had a sighted person here, but he was not really necessary except to get through the setup screens on the distro I happened to download, thebeginner's distro which is based on Debian. Nothing is easier than to SSHinto the unit, everything works well on that front. I have tried both Speakup and BRLTTY. I have had very little success with Speakup, not even being able to get it to run, but BRLTTY seems to be working in Braille, at least. I have heard, on the Speakup list, that there is something wrong with the sound driver on the Pi itself which causes Speakup to cut in and out to the point where it is unusable. This was about three months ago now, so I'm not sure whether it still applies. I have not heard of any BRLTTY users with the PI, but it may well be that I haven't known where to look. It is worth noting that there is a serial console built into the unit, but it requires soldering to a few pins on the board, as far as I know. If anyone knows of a way to get access to this serial console with a cable one plugs in, it would be, I think, most useful, allowing one to play with the kernel and so on without the risk of having the access devices themselves fail and lock the user out of the machine without network access. It would be good to hear from anyone who has gotten further with the unit, and particularly nice to hear from anyone who has actually gotten it talking. Aman -----Original Message----- From: access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk-bounce@** freelists.org <access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Michael Ray Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:22 AM To: Access-UK Subject: [access-uk] Raspberry PI Hello list Has anyone on the list had any hands-on with the little single-board computer known as Raspberry PI? I am wondering if anybody has yet had a go at making it accessible, perhaps by compiling a Linux kernel for it with the SpeakUp screen-reader running. Mike** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
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