Hi Robert.
I am currently looking in to my options re legal recourses. I am not
prepared to give up on my investment of Audible books, if necessary I will
take this matter to arbitration as is permitted in the Amazon terms of
service. While I agree with the terms, I don't agree with the decision to
close my account, thus locking me out of everything I own.
Thanks for the advice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Portal
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 2:27 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] R: Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Dear Ibrahim,
While I entirely agree that it is outrageous for you not to have full access
to your audible account, in your position my first thought would be to copy
everything so you don't lose your investment. if you can still download your
books to your phone isn't it possible to transfer the relevant files from
your phone's memory to the PC? You could then convert to mp3 using the
conversion programmes mentioned by others.
So far as resolving the problem with audible/Amazon is concerned, it might
be worth contacting an organisation like the Consumer Association (Which)
which has already expressed concern over the ephemeral nature of digital
property rights.
Companies like Amazon seem to be more worried about threats to their
reputation than possible legal action.
Good luck
Robert
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Per conto di
Ibrahim Gucukoglu
Inviato: martedì 16 febbraio 2016 14:18
A: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Oggetto: [access-uk] Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Hi Mo.
Audible can't help me I'm afraid, I have tried that route. The customer
services appear to be based in the same location as Amazon although it is a
different team, they still need access to the Amazon account which of course
they don't have.
All the best, Ibrahim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mobeen Iqbal
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 1:03 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Hi Ibrahim.
But the argument here is that you have paid for access to those books.
If you can no longer access them, they should refund you! i'd go to
audible customer service directly and plead your case. the last time I
rang they still seemed to be separate from amazon's customer services.
its extremely unfair! they should refund you at least partially if they
can't allow you full access from a PC as well as I devices!
Mo.
On 16/02/2016 13:00, Ibrahim Gucukoglu wrote:
Hi Mo.
All of these are great suggestions, however Audible is part of Amazon and
uses an Amazon account. If i attempt to associate billing information
such as my credit card etc. to my newly opened account, it would be closed
within the day by CIS. Also, as explained earlier I think, I can't get
access to my Amazon account, even through Audible.co.uk. Therefore no
access to library to download books. The only way I can listen to my
books is through my iPhone and iPad which I registered before my account
was nuked, however I will not be able to register any new devices.
All the best, Ibrahim.
-----Original Message----- From: Mobeen Iqbal
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 12:52 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Hi Ibrahim.
As jackie says, I'd certainly fight back! I'd contact audible and
explain the situation and request that your account can be separated
from Amazon. This should be possible in theory. If they refuse, you'd be
well within your rights to either create a separate audible account
independent from amazon using another email address that doesn't
necessarily contain your name and then just not link it to audible, and
use a program like sound taxi to convert your existing purchases if
they're really going to be that bitchy.
cheers,
Mo.
On 16/02/2016 12:49, Jackie Brown wrote:
Hi Ibrahim
If you have returned too many items, according to Amazon's policy, why
does that have to affect your Audible account? I know they own Audible,
but if you have paid for all your books, why should this be disregarded?
I wouldn't take that lying down or standing up!
Good luck.
Kind Regards,
Jackie Brown
Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Check out my website: www.thebrownsplace.info
Read my EyeWrite blog: www.thebrownsplace.info/?page_id=136
Follow me on Twitter: @thebrownsplace
Skype: thejackmate
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Ibrahim Gucukoglu
Sent: 16 February 2016 12:42
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Hi Clive.
You're welcome to share this thread with anyone who you think might be
interested. I'd be interested in hearing this from a legal perspective,
although I'm sure Amazon being the company they are have all the bases
covered.
All the best and good luck.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 10:49 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Hello,
I'd be interested to see whay my friend Richard, who is a
recently-retured leading copyright lawyer Makes of all this. Please write
off-list to let me know whether I have permission to share this thread
with him.
Could it be that some blind people may be more inclined to return items
which they buy and then discover to be inaccessible, or only partially
usable? If that could be argued, there may be indirect discrimination
going on here too. If not, then kindly disregard...
Best,
Clive
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Ibrahim Gucukoglu
Sent: 16 February 2016 01:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Hi James.
I am beginning to consider that as an option, I'm looking at all my
options right now. I can accept that Amazon don't want to do business
with me which is their perfect right, however when you've invested
thousands of pounds in content, you naturally expect that content to be
accessible to you. It's like filling up your house with valuable works
of art, furniture and other pieces only to have Amazon take the keys from
you, locking you out of your home and denying you access to the content
you rightfully own. It's only when it hits you do you realise what a
catastrophe it is. Whenever you write to Amazon's account specialists,
you get pro former emails, obviously scripted with no recourse. You
don't get a name, the agent who sends out the email doesn't even
introduce themselves, it's shocking impersonal dehumanising service.
Anyway, I need to rest this sleepy head of mine. Take care.
-----Original Message-----
From: James English
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 1:02 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: DRM is Evil! an observation
Hello,
You should certainly pursue legal action against Amazon. This is a breech
of the consumer rights act, and is fundamentally against the law.
Sincerely,
-James English
(Practising lawyer)
On 2/16/16, Ibrahim Gucukoglu <ibrahim_gucukoglu@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Everyone.** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
This little piece was written about me by my brother, it discusses the
consequences of digital lockouts. I was unfortunately enough to loose
access to my Amazon account last week, and the likelihood is that I
will not be able to have it reopened. This wouldn’t be a serious
issue if it weren’t for the enormous audible library I thought I
owned:
Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too
many articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold
or other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to
Amazon--with the result that he can no longer log in to his account.
And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome
collection of Audible books.
Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...
The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from
Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing
that key can of course continue to download and play any content, but
without logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have
made it very clear to my brother that they have no intention of
allowing him further access to his account. So Amazon has put an
effective end-of-life date on all of my brother's Audible "Purchases";
as soon as he resets the devices, sells and replaces them, etc., his
Audible collection will be no more.
I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is
thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's
iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You
don't own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you
don't have and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from
your money with the vague promise of letting you use the key, which
they endeavour to keep you from discovering, lest you use it in ways
not approved by the owner--for instance by unlocking your digital
content permanently and thus freeing yourself from the owner's
grip--but which they will make available to you while using software
that they trust to protect their, and not your, interests. And of
course, the owner always has the option of not letting you use your
key at all, by telling the server not to give it to the software.
While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to
your content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.
This racket is only possible because we give these content
distributors the money to enable it--to write the software that keeps
the keys safe from discovery while in your hands, to write laws that
prohibit people from breaking the software to access the content
without use of that software, and to criminalise perfectly legitimate
uses of content that are inconvenient for the bottom line, but that
are recognised by copyright and common sense as being reasonable and
fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this incident, as I
surely do, with something like this so close to home happening, and I
hope you'll be willing to think carefully about whose business
practices you'll be willing to support if you have the choice. I
understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the time,
and that it's easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens
to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and
those with other reading challenges, because the selection of material
is already very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes
exclusive collection of audiobooks available.
But they, and any other DRM peddler, simply cannot be trusted. I have
made it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and
I'm gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's
plight. For your own sake, wherever possible, you should make
arrangements to avoid DRM.
Try not to purchase anything you wouldn't keep from a DRM merchant.
You never know, it could be you this happens to, and you might be the
next person to own a handsome collection of strongly encrypted,
utterly useless files that you have no hope of playing, and who will
be out of pocket for the amount you "Bought" them for.
Hope this encourages some debate on the issue and those who use
Amazon, take heed!
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