Hi Ray,Yes, I agree that constructive is the way, but, for me some of these adaptive technology company's prices are very high, in that, even some governments and organisations don't want to pay for all the blind people working there to have access to JAWS or other screen readers. At the university where I was, for example, although we were more than 2, we only had the 2 computers with JAWS, and I have met people on chat rooms who have openly asked me, probably out of some sort of desperation, if I knew where to get jaws cracks, because the place where they were employed, one was even managed by a government, they were using the fourty-minute JAWS, and this guy was a qualified person with a university degree, and in quite a good job. Lucky that free options are becoming available like NVDA, and what's good is this new cheap pen thing that Dolphin has brought out here, called the Mercury or something, but I still haven't seen it. I do realise that the whole argument has the two parts, where the companies say they need to make money, but for me $895 for a software program, plus everytime you pay for upgrades is very expensive, especially if you're lucky enough to find a job in a country that doesn't have laws to help disabled people.
Ari----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:39 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Portset.
Arri, I don't want to be negative. Being critical certainly isn't the same as 'negative'. What I want is constructive, not istructive criticism. It is always bad to base discussions or politics around negatives and anti stances alone. From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- ari Yes Ray, it's really a pity there isn't just a list to which you could subscribe which justs highlights all the negative things of AT and the people in it, sort of having an absolute scream at the whole industry in particularly. I love this list because the moderators are much more relaxed then most of the dragons on the, dare I say this, American lists, I suppose it's just their culture with the whole could-be-sued thing, where do you draw the line at freedom of speech, some lists, you try and criticise something you get a huge moderator thing accusing you of some stupid thing called flaming, most of them are unreasonable. Ari ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Portset.Think we can happily agree to disagree Wendy on the meanness, or otherwise of 'the blind'. Access Tech's affordability is something that greatly interests meandoften vexes me too. Trouble is that neither this list, nor Vi-gen much likes the topic t=being raised at all; some of the reasons aren't hard to see, but your comment of wonderment at peopleaffordingit does want me to re-iterate the too often unstated fact that many blind people don't actually pay for it, at least those in work, and that is a big reason why prices are so high. Another is thepoliticalrealities we live under as, given the smallish market then strictly for profit organisations are going to charge whatever brings in the return they think is due to them. Interesting discussions on this subject area can be read at Blind Confidential and Blind Access Journal, which are American bloggs, but sometimes our own WillPiercegets mentioned; a bloke who seems to dwell in the intellectual stratasphere more than the bloggosphere! There are those earning a living and some a very respectable one at that, who aren't gunna have things change if they have anything todowith it. It's down to political economy really; and that being so, no one is proposing slapping a levy or obligation on the big corporations to fund a proper budget for development,much less astatesubsidy for it. You don't have to be a raving socialist or lefty either to see the sense of that solution; just out of step withthosewho have a stranglehold on our lives. More interesting reading at: http://www.blindaccessjournal.com/ http://blindconfidential.blogspot.com/ From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Wendy Sharpe Ray I think the price I paid was about right too. I do realise that not wanting to pay the licence fee is a bit mean, but TV sets are not cheap either, so I decided to go for the sound only bargain. I agree with you about the BBC, and what we would do without Radio 4Idon't know. Years ago we used to pay a small radio licence fee, and I for one wouldn't mind forking out a bit to the BBC for the privilege of all their radio access, not just national, but regional and local too. Since going online I have been able to enjoy listening to BBC radio when I have missed interesting programmes, and the work they do on their website is fantastic. I get loads of news and other information from them, and as far as I am concerned they are second to none. Your reference to the well-known stinginess of the blind is the only point where I would take issue with you. I think it is often more a question of lack of funds than actually being stingy. I was lucky enough tohaveworked full time for over 40 years, so I managed to build up a bit ofcompanypension as well as the one from the state. This means that if Iwantto buy a new PC, talking product, etc, I don't have to worry about the cost half so much as I would if I had never found a job and had to live on benefits. Given the appalling statistics regarding employment of blind people, it's a wonder to me that products specially designed for us sell as well as they do. Wendy -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ray's Home Sent: 02 December 2007 13:16 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Portset. Wendy, and anyone interested, what you paid is more or less what I think it would be worth new if a large number of people were to buy into this sort of stand-alone piece of equipment, so good on youthatyou found it at the right price. Afraid though that I've always been of the mind that what the Beeb does suits me admirably, though I know in this world of mass dumned-down culture - which the Beeb isn't slow to cater to - its a case of knowing the price but not the value of such a valuable asset as the Beeb is. Unpopular I know, but given the mass hatred of the licence fee, and then couple that with the well known stinginess of the blind, and you have a sure formula for shreaks of can't pay,won'tpay! I'm oh so glad I've been able to enjoy a variety and quality that would be denied me if I'd been born almost anywhere else. I could quite honestly see me going no TV at all if commercial offeringswereall that were on offer. A happy to be unpopular, From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Wendy Sharpe Ray I would certainly never have bought one at full price, and the only thing I lack is a DVD player, but I have now sussed out how to play DVD's on the PC using Power DVD. I have always thought that Portset's prices were way over the top. The media centre does also have the facility to record programmes, but there is no way to transfer recordings from its internal disk or whatever it uses to another hard drive, on the PC for example. Frankly, I was seriously thinking about giving up TV altogether when we finally switch over, as I refuse to have a TV and pay a licence for something I can't see. I'm a mean person, I know, but there isnobodyelse here who wants to watch telly. I got my media centre for £300, which I thought was a bargain, anditis a very nice piece of kit, but the original price is far too high, and even with competition from anything else which can talk, Portset neverseemto drop their prices. Wendy -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ray's Home Sent: 02 December 2007 12:51 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Portset. Sorry, but I don't feel obliged to be overly-polite on this one.Theprice ranging up to near a thousand quid has to be one of theall-timerip-offs, even considering the realities of access tech. I really don't know why anyone with a PC would even consider it, and that by definition, is pretty well everyone on a list such as this one. You can hardly blame the guy for wanting to hold on to the miche market he had with the original teletext reciever, but times have moved on since then, I'm glad to say. Still, as I've said to the original enquirer off-list, I can hardly criticise you if you really want to spend money in this way, but frankly, many wouldn't. Cheers, From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Gordon Keen Strange, safari went straight to it and I've just browsed throughthemodels available. World wide weirdness! Cheers G From glorious Devon, England. On 2 Dec 2007, at 12:26, David W Wood wrote:Hi Gordon - this link gives: This page is not available David -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gordon Keen Sent: 02 December 2007 12:16 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Gordon Keen Subject: [access-uk] Re: Portset. Hi For alternatives check out: http://www.tvhelp.org.uk/audes/equipment.index.html Hopefully competition will force down prices in the not too distant future. Cheers G From glorious Devon, England. On 2 Dec 2007, at 11:03, Jackie Cairns wrote: My only comment, and please feel free to jump on me if you want folks (though not literally) (smile), is that it's a rip-off for £620 or whatever it costs. I know it speaks, but £620 for that? Phew! I loved their Talking Teletext unit when I had mine, but that was when there wasn't so much information available elsewhere. Certain Freeview boxes, while they don't provide speech navigation, do offer Audio Description, and there are also lots of DAISY players on the market to tap into. I just think it's well OTT. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: sue morgan <mailto:sue@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 12:35 AM Subject: [access-uk] Portset. Hi list. I've been reading about the Portset Accessible Freeview Receiver and I'm quite interested in it. I'm wondering if anyoneonthis list has one, or knows anything about them. I've listened to the audio demo on the Portset website and it seems very accessible. Any feedback would be grate as I'd love to have an accessible freeview receiver. Sue. e-mail sue@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx mobile 07968825286 msn sue@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx skype suemorgan1006 Gordon Keen gordonkeen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
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