[access-uk] Re: Political Correctness

  • From: Gordon Keen <gordonkeen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:44:40 +0000

Um, this thread would seem to be - well - so off topic as it could be. It is a list about technology Steve isn't it? 


Have the moderators all gone on holiday?
I am leaving the comet tail of spurious posts at the end of my message, normally I would snip but it is really about time people learned how to tidy up there own messages 

Regards

G

From glorious Devon, England.
(BTW the G is for grumpy)

On 19 Feb 2008, at 21:30, Marie Baisez wrote:


I am not aware that anything did
The coins are not perfect, show me something that is... but one gets used to them, The notes are usable and, anyway, I've never got enough of them in my purse to get confused if I put them in a special order We use less and less cash anyway and it's not wise to carry a lot of it about. 
Marie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ankers, Dave (UK)" <Dave.Ankers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > 
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:14 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Political Correctness


What went wrong then?

Dave

I say that I know blind and partially sighted people were consulted in
the design of the coins and notes, I was in Belgium for the changeover
and there were meetings organised all over the country where VIP were
invited to be shown the money and could handle it for an hour or so and 
test their ability with fun and games.
We were all given a free talking calculator with all the usual function 
plus a belgian franc to euro converter built-in and a big leaflet
describing all the design of the coins and notes in the different euro
countries.
I believe the same happened in France.
In this, as with everything I guess, we are all more comfortable with
what we are used to and change, in moderation but change all the same is 
there to keep us on our toes and keep us young.
Cheers now,
Marie
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron sears" <r.sears1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Political Correctness



There is nothing wrong with the Euro.  It is so easy to get used to
the coins.
They are not so heavy and the notes are different sizes.  I was in
Bruges the day they changed over and quickly got used to it.  Now if
we got to use the American dollar, well that is another hew ball game. 


The notes are all green and all the same size.  Well they were the
last time I handled them.  Come on live in the real world, what say
you Marie?

Cheers

Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie Cairns" <cairnsplace@xxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:28 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Political Correctness


You're such a wise man Dave Ankers, leaving your wife to take care of
the money.  That's my job too and I highly recommend it no matter how
funny it is (smiles).

Seriously, I've never seen a Euro before.

Jackie

Email: cairnsplace@xxxxxxx
Skype Name: Cairnsplace
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ankers, Dave (UK)" <Dave.Ankers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:25 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Political Correctness




Wendy,
I fully agree with you concerning European coinage, I don't like them 


one bit, so I leave dealing with all that funny money to my wife.

Dave
I haven't travelled much since the Euro came in, but I have seen some
of the coinage, and as a totally blind person I found it difficult to 


tell one coin from another.  They were all about the same size, some
with milled edges, some not, but not very easy to distinguish.
Clearly someone wasn't politically correct enough to consult visually 


impaired people and make the coins easily understood.

I am amazed to hear about the American NFB's attitude about
accessible currency.  However, years ago an American friend did tell
me that over there you don't get nearly as much help as we do here.
He was talking in terms of getting around, strangers kindly assisting 


if you looked lost, etc.  He said that even hailing a taxi was very
problematical, as many of them wouldn't stop if they didn't want to
take you.  Apparently the American attitude was that you just had to
get on with life as best you could and not expect help.
I felt very glad to be living in Britain when I heard this. We moan, 


and rightly so, when service is bad, but in many parts of the world
service is non-existent or very basic.

I think it's ok to discuss this on this list.  After all,
accessibility doesn't just mean gadgets that can talk or magnify
screens.  It covers every aspect of life where sight would be an
enormous help if we had it, and lack of it is a perishing nuisance.

Wendy

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Ray's Home
Sent: 19 February 2008 11:13
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Political Correctness

Not sure which side of the political fenceDave Taylor is on in his
last post, but can I throw in a thought here, and its related to
access tech too!

I believe the US NFB is opposed to the Accessible currency campaign
that A C B is running - but aside from the long standing antippathy
between those organisations an interesting point emerges.

NFB seems to oppose accessible currency because I believe they think
that blind people should make the necessary adjustment, not the

state.

Seems as American as Bluebury Pieto me, and wrong.  the common sense
notion that currency should be readily and quickly identifiable by
those who cannot see seems a very good idea. Maybe the American Feds 


idea is you buy the KNFB reader to do the job, or one or two other
gismos that the American Fed may or may not have a financial stake

in.

Now, there's a good idea!  One that pays too!  Even if blind people
are substantially the poorer for it, in money terms.
All that aside, I think you will find the diversity/equality industry 


is blithely unaware and uninterested in disability as an equality
issue if it goes against their rather pathetic and ill-thought out
notions of equality.  Indeed some are more equal than others.  You
should see the money the favoured groups get locally and the money
local VI campaigners don't get.

I support Race equality , but too many in the B M E industry are
strongly antithetical  and crassly ignorant of disability equality
issues and don't have the same notion of justice being done across
the board.

Cheers,

From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
Dave Taylor
Sent: 19 February 2008 10:26AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Political Correctness


Hi, taking that to its logical conclusion, let's scrap all equality
legislation, including the DDA, stop expecting anything to be made
accessible, and all have specialist gadgets, specialist jobs and
special educational courses! Not as bad an idea as we might have
thought even a year or two ago!

Cheers
Dave


--------------------------------------------------
From: "jim o'brien" <jim.taggart@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:23 AM
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Bt total broadband - was ISP providers


my opinion only.
political correctness is a form of brain washing and we should fight 
it at

every turn.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie Cairns" <cairnsplace@xxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 9:16 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Bt total broadband - was ISP providers
All I would say is it's PC or, as I call it, Political Cuckoo, gone 
...

well ... cuckoo!

I would have done the same in your shoes Roger.  I take exception

to

being called a racist by anybody.  I have some good friends from
overseas, and indeed family members.

But what initiated this thread was Dave saying he didn't like the

BT Call

Centre, and I have to agree with that.  They do read from scripts,
whether they come from Ireland or India.  Broadband is also a very
technical language, and I sympathise with even well-versed English
speakers in the terminology they need to understand.

There isn't any need for anybody to take offence.  As I say, it's

PC gone

cuckoo.

Jackie
Email: cairnsplace@xxxxxxx
Skype Name: Cairnsplace
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger South" <roger.south@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Bt total broadband - was ISP providers



Around the middle of last year I had occasion to phone my local
council's hackney carriage office to complain of a taxi driver who 


refused to take my guide dog. In conversation I said that

immigrants to

this country should be made aware that they will be expected to

obey the

laws of this country That when in Rome do as Romans. The woman

went mad

calling me the worse kind of racist and was going to report me

then

slamming the phone down. A while later I received, unannounced, a

visit

from the council department concerned with that sort of thing.

They said

they were investigation to decide whether to prosecute me. They

than

gave a list of the things I'd said which were twisted versions of

what I

actually did say. I waited until they'd finished and simply asked

if

they'd listened to the tape that was said about at the start of

the

conversation on the phone. They admitted no so I told them to do

so and

stop wasting my time. I didn't hear any more so I contacted them

and was

told no further action was planned. I demanded an apology in

writing or

I would start proceedings against them. I got it. So some people

do jump

off the deep end without taking care to get their facts correct

first.
So many people are so very over sensitive in finding reasons to be 


offended.

Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:53 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Bt total broadband - was ISP providers



Not sure Dave if it wouldn't have been better to refer to

language
barriers, perhaps? Maybe more a subject for Vi-gen, but I do get 
very

anoyed when having to deal with people, whereever they might be

from,

who's grasp of English leaves much to be desired, e.g. in a pub

being

expected to point to what I want, rather than simply ask for it.

Mind you much of the problem is also down to the mass-market

habit of

selling things and not providing propper support to keep prices
artificially low, hence use of call centres with no knowledge or
comitment to anything they are providing support for.

As I say, a subject more for vi-gen I think.

Cheers,



From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
Ankers, Dave (UK)
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Bt total broadband - was ISP providers



Kirsty,

It's interesting, I used the word "Brainless" because the person

on

the
other end of the phone was unable to leave the script they have

been

programmed with and have a conversation based on information

given.

Is
that Racist?
I also stated that misunderstandings due to language differences, 


meaning constantly having to repeat oneself was infuriating.

Does

that
make me a racist? oh no I used the "C" word!! yes coloured!

Jackie

stop
laughing!
It's interesting, whenever you use the word "Coloured" you must

be a

racist.  If I was a racist, I wouldn't spend so much money in

their

restaurants!
Sure there are some I don't like, just imagine I lived in between 
two

neighbours, who both played agga bloody do at full volume, I

would

want
to shoot the pair of them, but one is Caucasian and the other
coloured!
yes you know what I'm going to be called after shooting the

coloured

one
don't you!

Kirsty, you said you didn't want to start a new conversation on

the
subject, and it's not access related, but to someone who attended 
a
school which was 75% coloured, and I know who is the most racist! 
ever

heard of the cast system?
it's the proverbial red rag!

Dave

Dave,

I'm of the opinion that your choice of words leaves a lot to be
desired, and goes no way to support your statement that you are
not



xenophobic - your defining people by their skin colour and
claiming



that they

don't
have a brain because they don't understand you being two examples 


thereof.

I find this list a useful and productive platform for sharing

ideas

and
information, and think it would be unfortunate if it became a

place

where such discriminatory comments were unchallenged.
I have no interest in opening up a new discussion on the subject, 
but
wanted to make the point that at least one person here found the
racist comments about Indian call centres offensive. Yes, I have 


had my

own

frustrating experiences with a number of call centres, but I

believe

there's a difference in being dissatisfied with a service and

writing

so
discourteously about a whole people group.

Kirsty


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