[access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification
- From: "Jamie Cuthbertson" <jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 15:48:18 -0000
Paul,
You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion of any service.
However, I want to emphasise that this comment is not valid if you refer to
RNIB, because RNIB is not charging anyone at present for any service of this
type. The subscription service that is on offer and which Jackie mentioned,
is a Sound Talking/TNAUK service and not an RNIB one.
All the participants in our trial were supplied with an Orion Webbox, if
necessary a router and, in some cases, a broadband connection for 6 months.
This was absolutely free to the trialists.
As I said before, we have just finished the evaluation of the Orion Webbox
and there is a lot of discussion still to be had before a decision will be
made about any future service.
Regards,
Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Paul Leake
Sent: 28 March 2008 21:04
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification
i can't help but think it is a bit (or a lot), of a money making scam taking
advantage of the potentially vulnerable who feel they can only depend on
this unit to meet their needs to access internet radio as a visually
impaired person!
Cheers
Paul
paul.leake@xxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 7:23 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification
> Jackie, Paul, and everyone, it does seem very sad that this web box is
> getting mixed up with vol sector politics and agendas.
>
> It's not as though I cannot see the attraction of this device for RNIB
> and TNAUK in terms of speeding up and cheapening distribution of
> material and news making it available in a more immediate fashion.
>
> At present though a considerable cost falls on the consumer and quite
> probably a lot of hassle too regarding possible changed URLS and
> sending the thing back for alterations to the menus to be made. To
> have such a crippled unit so dependent on being tied to the mother
> organisations apron strings seems perverse to me. Is it that a new
> income stream (sic) is being sought as well as benefits to
> distribution of audio news and information?
>
> So many blind people could obviously update these units themselves
> that this does seem to be a rather obvious ploy to stop us doing it
> for ourselves, instead having to rely on a not always very competent
> organisation to do it for us. Need I cite the example of the mess the
> talking book library has got itself into over the last six months and
> more? I believe TNAUK has its own problems too according to one user
> of their services I know.
>
> All of this said, I'm willing to listen to arguments supporting why
> we're being lumbered, seemingly, with this way of doing things.
>
> From Ray
> I can be contacted off-list at:
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Paul Leake
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification
>
>
> my sense is that if this product is going to be a runner, users will
> need to
> be able to select internet sstations themselves. after all such
> products
> should be about promoting independence not dependency on what an
> organisation thinks the blind might wish to use! It seems to me that
> potoentially this product might superficially appeal to people who
> feel
> unable to cope with complex computer equipment but they should still
> be
> afforded the same opportunities as a fully sighted person buying an
> internet
> radio particularly given the price of this unit!
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
> paul.leake@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamie Cuthbertson" <jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:28 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification
>
>
>> Jackie,
>>
>> Many thanks for the update and I quite agree about the politics!!
> (smile)
>>
>> I just wanted everyone on the list to be clear about the current
> line RNIB
>> is taking and for there to be no confusion or misunderstanding about
> this.
>> Hopefully this has now been done.
>>
>> I guess that you don't really want paid in peanuts anyway!!? (Smile)
>>
>> All the best for now,
>>
>> Jamie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
>> Of
>> Jackie Cairns
>> Sent: 28 March 2008 17:49
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Orion Webbox review - clarification
>>
>>
>> Hi Jamie
>>
>> Thanks for clarifying RNIB's position, both privately and on this
> list.
>>
>> I would add that when I asked SoundTalking if I could write a review
> of
>> the
>> Orion Web Box, they agreed on the condition that I sought permission
> from
>> Ted Davis before any such article could be published.
>>
>> So, having written the review this week, I indeed sent it to Ted for
> his
>> approval. He "specifically" asked me not to send it to RNIB for
>> publication
>>
>> at this stage, which I haven't, and that I could distribute it among
> Email
>> lists, which I have done.
>>
>> So, as far as I personally am concerned, I tried out the Orion Web
> Box to
>> solve my own curiosity to see if it was the path I wanted to take,
> and to
>> write a fair and balanced review to let others know of its existence
> and
>> features.
>>
>> Ted gave me all the information regarding the participants involved,
> so if
>> this is incorrect, then he must be responsible for that as he
> sanctioned
>> the
>>
>> review after it was written.
>>
>> Personally, I think everyone wants their heads banging together over
> this.
>> It's a bloody tool for the end user, and why politics have to come
> into
>> play
>>
>> I honestly don't know and don't care. I wouldn't buy it anyway, and
> I
>> haven't been paid so much as a peanut for writing the review. I did
> it
>> because I wanted to. (smiles.)
>>
>> Thanks Jamie for clarifying. I have sent a good number of reviews
>> privately, so hope it has proved useful, which was always my
> intention.
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> Email: cairnsplace@xxxxxxx
>> Skype Name: Cairnsplace
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jamie Cuthbertson" <jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:20 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Orion Webbox review - clarification
>>
>>
>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> I read Jackie's review of the Orion Webbox with interest and would
> like
>>> to
>>> clarify a little of the detail. First a bit of background to
> explain my
>>> link with the Orion Webbox. I apologise in advance for the length
> of
>>> this
>>> posting.
>>>
>>> Last year I was asked to run a trial of the Orion Webbox on RNIB's
> behalf
>>> and this started around April/May. We trialled the unit with
> around 90
>>> participants, living mainly in the Glasgow and Gloucestershire
> areas. A
>>> thorough evaluation of the system was conducted in October. The
>>> evaluation
>>> report was finished earlier this year.
>>>
>>> For the purposes of the trial, RNIB made available a selection of
>>> internet
>>> radio stations, talking books, magazines and newspapers and
> podcasts, on
>>> each of the playlists. This playlist is different from, though
> similar
>>> to,
>>> that offered by Sound Talking.
>>>
>>> Although the official trial period is over, some of our trialists
> still
>>> have
>>> their webboxes and can access the playlist that was provided.
>>>
>>> As yet, however, there has been no decision taken about how long
> this
>>> will
>>> be the case.
>>>
>>> For clarification, in Jackie's article, she says "In addition, both
> RNIB
>>> and
>>> Calibre have included talking books which they say they will update
> at
>>> regular intervals."
>>>
>>> I cannot comment on behalf of Calibre, however, I think it is only
> fair
>>> to
>>> point out that the RNIB Talking Books that are currently available
> on the
>>> Sound Talking playlist are only sample titles that were made
> available to
>>> the Sound Talking trialists, who participated in a similar trial at
> the
>>> end
>>> of 2007 and into early 2008. There is no plan at present to
> change,
>>> amend
>>> or add to this list of books - they are only samples to show what
> can be
>>> done.
>>>
>>> The general feedback from our trialists was that this kind of
> technology
>>> provides very exciting possibilities, but there is a great deal of
>>> discussion still to be had around issues such as content, how
> multiple
>>> organisations can participate, standards, features, user control of
>>> playlists and so on. In the next few weeks there are due to be
> meetings
>>> to
>>> take forward this discussion and these will bring together many of
> the
>>> organisations which currently have a vested interested in the
> subject.
>>>
>>> Having completed the evaluation process reasonably recently, it is
>>> entirely
>>> right and proper that all organisations that wish to investigate a
> future
>>> service of this type, take an appropriate amount of time to
> thoroughly
>>> investigate all the issues in order to ensure that, if a service is
> to be
>>> established, that it meets all the needs of the end users. This is
> the
>>> approach that RNIB is currently taking and I'm sure that you will
> agree
>>> that
>>> this is sensible.
>>>
>>> I hope this clarifies the existing situation. If anyone wishes to
> be
>>> sent
>>
>>> a
>>> copy of the RNIB trial evaluation of the Orion Webbox, please feel
> free
>>> to
>>> contact me at my RNIB email address:
>>>
>>> Jamie.cuthbertson@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> mentions that both RNIB and Calibre content is available and that
>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>>> ----
>>>
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Jackie Cairns
>>> Sent: 27 March 2008 17:33
>>> To: Access UK Mailing List
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Solutions In A Box? - Orion Web Box Internet
> Radio
>>> Review
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Due to popular demand, I have been asked to post the below review
> to the
>>> list. Draw your own conclusions from its contents, and I'm happy
> to
>>> answer
>>> any questions that I can.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SOLUTIONS IN A BOX?
>>>
>>> THE ORION WEB BOX INTERNET RADIO
>>>
>>> JACKIE CAIRNS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are now thousands of radio stations worldwide that one may
> tune
>>> into
>>> over the Internet. And this way of accessing radio has become so
> popular
>>> that several manufacturers such as Intempo and Roberts have brought
> out
>>> stand-alone devices that allow you to listen to your favourite
> programmes
>>> without using a PC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But while Internet radio, as it is known, is commercially available
> and
>>> affordable, it isn't accessible for those with little or no sight.
> With
>>> so
>>> much material to choose from, operating an Internet radio if you
> don't
>>> have
>>> enough vision to read the display is a daunting prospect. But
> thanks to
>>> the
>>> collaboration of Dutch company Solutions Radio, and UK charity
>>> SoundTalking
>>> - which is the commercial outlet of the popular Talking Newspaper
>>> Association of the United Kingdom (TNAUK) - an Internet radio with
> speech
>>> feedback is now available.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This piece reviews a trial Orion Web Box, supplied by SoundTalking,
> and
>>> outlines what users may expect from the service in the coming
> months.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONTROLS AND FEATURES
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Orion Web Box is a sturdy rectangular-shaped device in
> contrasting
>>> black
>>> and grey colours. It is slightly sloped so that the back is higher
> than
>>> the
>>> front, with a speaker, all its controls, and small display
> positioned on
>>> the
>>> top.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When the Web Box is facing you, the speaker grill occupies the
> portion
>>> towards the back of the machine, with small display, five buttons
> and
>>> rotary
>>> volume control/mute/pause/bookmark facility nearer to the front.
> A
>>> mains
>>> outlet, RJ45 ethernet connection, two phono sockets and phone
> connectors
>>> are
>>> at the rear of the unit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The five round buttons are arranged in a sighted L-shape further to
> the
>>> front of the unit. The first one is up, below which is down, below
> which
>>> is
>>> the OK or Accept button. To the right of the OK is Back, followed
> by
>>> On/Off. The rotary volume/mute/pause/bookmark control is in the
> middle
>>> of
>>> the L-shape, and is very distinctive to feel and turn. To mute or
> pause
>>> what you are listening to, simply press down the rotary control,
> and
>>> press
>>> again to continue. The control, when pressed down and held, also
> acts as
>>> a
>>> bookmark facility.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The small display comprises black text on a yellow background. But
> as a
>>> totally blind person, I could not say how easy this would be to use
> for
>>> those with limited sight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the middle of the front edge of the Web Box is a small round
> sensor
>>> which
>>> detects the accompanying remote control. This small hand-held
> control
>>> allows the same functionality as the Web Box itself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Before turning on the Web Box, it needs to be mains powered and
> connected
>>> to
>>> the accompanying ethernet cable to provide access to the Internet.
> Once
>>> this is done, press the bottom right button to switch on the
> device. A
>>> few
>>> short beeps indicates that the Web Box has power, and is proceeded
> by the
>>> following: "Hello and welcome to SoundTalking Internet radio.
> Press the
>>> OK
>>> button when you hear the subject of your choice. You can choose
> from:
>>> Announcements; Bookmark Facility; National Radio Stations; Local
> Radio
>>> Stations; Local Talking Newspapers; National Talking Newspapers and
>>> Magazines; SoundTalking Publications; Soundings Magazine; Info
> Sound;
>>> Music
>>> for Blind; Calibre Books; RNIB Talking Books; Podcasts; Useful
>>> Information
>>> on the Orion Web Box." You may intercept this list of choices at
> any
>>> point
>>> by pressing the OK button to enter a sub-menu with further choices.
>>> Alternatively, if you know the choices off by heart, you can
> quickly go
>>> up
>>> and down to find the item you want more rapidly using the buttons
>>> described
>>> above. At the end of the list read out, the voice continues with:
> "As
>>> you
>>> have made no choice, this menu will be repeated."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As you have now discovered, the Orion Web Box is more than just an
>>> Internet
>>> radio. It has been designed to accept the entire range of TNAUK
>>> publications which is an annual subscription service. In addition,
> both
>>> RNIB and Calibre have included talking books which they say they
> will
>>> update
>>> at regular intervals. These publications may be bookmarked, with a
>>> current
>>> limit of up to 10.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As an avid radio listener, and most anxious to access this aspect
> of the
>>> Orion Web Box, I discovered that the trial unit contains only 25
> national
>>> and 14 local stations which may be increased on request to
> SoundTalking.
>>> These stations are all easily accessed by choosing either the
> national or
>>> local radio stations list from the main menu, and then selecting
> the
>>> preferred station from the sub-menu. Again, the list will be
> repeated if
>>> you make no selection, and just pressing the OK button allows you
> to make
>>> your choice. A series of beeps ensues while you wait for your
> selected
>>> radio station to commence.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The speech menus are clear and straightforward to follow. No prior
>>> computer
>>> knowledge is required to operate the Web Box, apart from the fact
> you
>>> must
>>> have an Internet connection so that the radio can find the
> necessary
>>> information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those who prefer to use Wi-Fi, or wireless connectivity, a
> model of
>>> the
>>> Web Box supporting this capability is available for an extra
> charge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was disappointed to discover that the Orion Web Box is only a
> mono
>>> radio,
>>> both from its external speaker and through headphone listening. A
>>> supplied
>>> lead with two phono jacks at one end can be connected to the rear
> of the
>>> Web
>>> Box, with a 3.5MM socket at the other that allows attachment to
> your own
>>> headphones. It looks like a stereo device because of its two phono
>>> sockets,
>>> but it is, in fact, mono.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Orion Web Box is available in two flavours from SoundTalking.
> The
>>> standard ethernet version costs £279, and the wireless option £315.
> This
>>> is
>>> in stark contrast to commercially available Internet radios which
> cost
>>> from
>>> £99 to £200. The commercial alternatives also support
> approximately
>>> 6,000
>>> stations worldwide, and update automatically when new channels are
> added.
>>> You can choose from country or genre when browsing these radios,
> and some
>>> even offer the facility to allow you to listen to your own music
>>> collections
>>> from your PC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But, as already stated, such an appetising prospect is impossible
> without
>>> sufficient sight. At present, therefore, we are faced with a
> limited
>>> option
>>> in the form of the Orion Web Box. It is limited because all
> stations
>>> need
>>> to be added by SoundTalking. All stations are also tagged, which
> means
>>> that
>>> they have to be voice labelled so that the user may identify them.
> When
>>> a
>>> station therefore goes out of date, or changes its name, the
> original
>>> speech
>>> label, or tag, doesn't automatically update, and needs to be
> altered
>>> manually. This is costly for the suppliers to upkeep, and is
> dependent
>>> upon
>>> regular maintenance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Both partners in this project have assured me that anyone wishing
> to have
>>> a
>>> radio station of their choice added to the Orion Web Box can do so
> by
>>> contacting SoundTalking. They also insist the unit will be updated
>>> regularly with a variety of books and information from other
> sources.
>>> And
>>> they have stated that they will support anyone who purchases an
> Orion Web
>>> Box regardless of whether or not they take out a Talking Newspapers
>>> subscription.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONCLUSIONS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a compact device with a lot of practicability for those who
> are
>>> not
>>> particularly computer literate, yet want to listen to a variety of
> radio
>>> stations, or TNAUK/RNIB/Calibre publications in one solution. It
> is easy
>>> to
>>> use, and contains a straightforward set of print and audio
> instructions.
>>> There is clearly enormous potential for the unit to be developed
> further,
>>> particularly the radio aspect.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do have concerns, however, about long term support for the Web
> Box.
>>> While
>>> trials and user feedback have been positive, I cannot help
> wondering what
>>> sort of shelf life such a device will have if it needs constant
> speech
>>> tagging and manual maintenance to ensure everything is kept
> up-to-date.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For further information, contact SoundTalking on 01435 862737, send
> an
>>> Email
>>> to info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, or visit
>>>
>>> http://www.soundtalking.co.uk/internet-radio-service.html.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Glasgow - Proud Host City of the 2014 Commonwealth Games
>>>
>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
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> message
>>> was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this
>>> message.
>>> Glasgow City Council cannot accept responsibility for viruses, so
> please
>>> scan attachments. Views expressed in this message do not
> necessarily
>>> reflect
>>> those of the Council who will not necessarily be bound by its
> contents.
>>>
>
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