[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 19:01:27 +0100
Hi Damon,
Again, you are making assumptions. You are assuming there are not so many
scripts because you don't know, and just because JAWS has the biggest market
share.
Head on over to http://www.gwmicro.com/sc to see all the scripts. You can
subscribe to their Scripting mailing list and get all the support you want
on scripts, or even subscribe to their GW-Info list to get general support.
Or heck, you could even Email support@xxxxxxxxxxxx
So what else could we do for support? What scripts are not there in WE that
are in JAWS?
I don't mind you not converting, but I do mind people making assumptions
when they clearly don't know, and just because the majority of the users
they know use JAWS.
Rant over.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Damon Rose
Sent: Friday 14 May 2010 10:24
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
To be fair, I can't just get into WindowEyes because steve is into it ;)
When I say support, I'm thinking about everything from ideas and
experiences of using a screenreader with many different applications and
also amateur scripts that may have been created. From what I gather,
there is much less of this kind of support than there is for JAWS>
Hope that makes my position clear. And yes it's all about comfort
because I don't have the time to go on many learning curves without good
pointers.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 13 May 2010 23:04
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
Hi Damon,
How do you know what the support is like for Window-Eyes? You have
never asked me a question on WE to my knowledge. I know it pretty well,
having used it since 1995, when it first came out <Smile>.
I will support anyone with WE without exception, whether they bought it
from me or are running the demo, or even if they bought it from another
supplier.
I think the comfort zone is kicking in here. Personally, I have both
screen readers, and used to have a lot of respect for JAWS, but it is
getting worse, more clunky and more buggy with each new version.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Damon Rose
Sent: Wednesday 12 May 2010 13:22
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
I would only consider moving across to WindowEyes if the rest of the
world did it first. I want a decent online support setup.
I suspect lots of other people feel the same. It's just too big a jump
unless lots more people jump first. JAWS are too engrained in blind
culture at present.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 12 May 2010 10:34
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
\Or of course in Win 7 you can just start typing magnifier until it
comes up! Much easier way really! Remember the edit field is your
friend!
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of chris hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:35 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
1. Windows+u.
2. Tab to start magnifier button.
3. Read the help for usage on Magnifier.
Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
On 11/05/2010 22:32, Eleanor Burke wrote:
> Thanks Chris, I do have Windows 7 also. How does one bring up the
> magnification in Windows 7. It is on my laptop. Does it toggle on and
off?
>
> Eleanor
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:20 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>
>
>> Eleanor if you have Windows 7 there is full screen magnification free
>> of charge. It's part of the Magnifier program found in Ease of Access
>> Centre. If this is on your XP machine then I apologize for the
>> perhaps useless information.
>>
>>
>> Chris Hallsworth
>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>
>> On 11/05/2010 22:17, Eleanor Burke wrote:
>>> Worth thinking about then Chris but I am more on the look out for
>>> say nVDA and another magnification rather than using part Supernova
>>> as I might as well go ahead and use the speech then too *smile*. I
>>> have done another upgrade on Supernova tonight so maybe all will be
>>> well actually, no longer having those terrible crashing out problems
>>> I was having on Outlook Express which were very strange and not on
other applications.
>>>
>>> Eleanor
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
>>> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:11 PM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>>>
>>>
>>>> Suppose Eleanor that you could use NVDA, turn the speech off on
>>>> SuperNova and just rely on the magnification. I can't see it
>>>> causing major problems whatsoever, as NVDA doesn't install any
drivers.
>>>> Unfortunately I have used up my student allowance, so can't upgrade
>>>> to JAWS pro with that. Sorry my friend.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Hallsworth
>>>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>>>
>>>> On 11/05/2010 22:06, Eleanor Burke wrote:
>>>>> That was in my opinion Chris, brilliant contribution. I had noted
>>>>> before that you were using NVDA and spoke so highly of it. I would
>>>>> be really interested in trying it out if there was a screen
>>>>> magnification that worked with it. I am surprised that you are
>>>>> unable to upgrade to Jaws Pro with the student allowance for
>>>>> equipment or perhaps you have used up your allowance. I am not
>>>>> wishing to enter into your personal situation, only am aware of a
>>>>> Disabled Student Allowance for equipment.
>>>>> I have been very disappointed that I cannot run Jaws and
>>>>> Supernova, on the one computer, no, I donot mean at once but only
>>>>> one wins out sadly which means that I have now chosen to go back
>>>>> to Supernova rather than Jaws and Magic. I have never given Window
>>>>> Eyes a go and again would be interested but have got so used to
>>>>> replying on magnification too, really want something that is as
>>>>> powerful as Supernova magnification to try alongside another
>>>>> speech screen reader.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
>>>>> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:05 PM
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, what an interesting thread this is turning out to be Barry.
>>>>>> Although I have got a JAWS license, I have only authorized it on
>>>>>> my Netbook running Windows 7 Starter. I used to have a license on
>>>>>> my laptop, which was running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, but
>>>>>> have decided, thanks to my university, to upgrade to
>>>>>> Professional, but not
>>>>>> 64 bit. I decided to go back to 32 bit, only because some of my
>>>>>> favourite applications, like Winamp, work better on this
platform.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> reason I thank university is because I got a rare offer; a free
>>>>>> product key for Windows 7 Professional. I'm absolutely loving
>>>>>> this edition of Windows 7. Features like Windows XP Mode and
>>>>>> hosting Remote Desktop sessions grabbed it for me. As I hope to
>>>>>> qualify as a professional technician during the summer holidays I
>>>>>> felt this edition was more appropriate for me. Anyway, back to my
>>>>>> screen readers. I am only authorized for JAWS Standard, and right
>>>>>> now cannot afford to upgrade to JAWS Professional. That's no big
>>>>>> deal for me. Over time I have learnt to acquaint with the free
>>>>>> screen reader NVDA and a demo version of Window-Eyes, which I
>>>>>> only use for testing purposes. As for JAWS, I did install JAWS 11
>>>>>> as a 40 minute demo, but as I loved NVDA and like Window-Eyes I
>>>>>> decided to completely throw away JAWS and only use JAWS on my
>>>>>> netbook. I use NVDA full time right now, and, despite it's free
>>>>>> it's very stable, more so than JAWS. I will, however, still use
>>>>>> JAWS, but only to log into somebody's machine through JAWS Tandem
>>>>>> or use applications like Microsoft Access to which NVDA support
>>>>>> hasn't been, and probably never will be, implemented. This I sure
>>>>>> understand, but so long as I can get the work done with NVDA,
>>>>>> like browsing the web, manage my mail, listen to and manage my
>>>>>> media, I'm happy.
>>>>>> Please ensure that I am in no way bashing the product. These are
>>>>>> just my own personal experiences and right now it's all going
>>>>>> well with few problems. In the future I may buy Window-Eyes
>>>>>> through their lease to own program, but am not sure as of this
>>>>>> time. The way things are going with NVDA to me will possibly
>>>>>> replace the commercial offerings for individual consumers like
>>>>>> myself. So might just stick with NVDA and only NVDA, and only use
>>>>>> JAWS for the above.
>>>>>> Have a good day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Hallsworth
>>>>>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/05/2010 12:16, Barry Toner wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I
>>>>>>> posted it to the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've
>>>>>>> Something To Say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share
>>>>>>> my experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Messege Starts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> " I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old. I
>>>>>>> frustrated myself with Hal for about 2 years and then I found
>>>>>>> JAWS. Whilst it did not replace being able to use Windows with
>>>>>>> sight it was a breath of fresh air compared to Hal 4.2.
>>>>>>> Especially when it came to surfing the Internet. This would have
>>>>>>> been JAWS 3.7 I started with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of
>>>>>>> problems not being fixed, new ones being introduced and
>>>>>>> generally allot of half-baked product development going through
>>>>>>> out onto the market. Not to mention as I see them very fluffy
>>>>>>> plug ins and the nightmare that has always existed JAWS
>>>>>>> licensing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my
>>>>>>> comfort zone. Even at the time when my peers where doing so and
>>>>>>> I would have most benefited from their support and vice versa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using
JAWS.
>>>>>>> Though
>>>>>>> having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a
>>>>>>> fact would have been allot easier with Window Eyes. What's that
>>>>>>> old saying though?
>>>>>>> About
>>>>>>> heinsight being twenty twenty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use
>>>>>>> Window Eyes.
>>>>>>> I didn't' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd
>>>>>>> been there before. When they tried to get me to see the light,
>>>>>>> so to speak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this
time.
>>>>>>> Something that would be different from previous half-hearted
>>>>>>> attempts to give the product a fair go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> 1 full
>>>>>>> week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made
>>>>>>> a commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes. I was
>>>>>>> determined to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was allot harder than it may sound. Especially as I'm
>>>>>>> really not that much of a committed person when it comes to
>>>>>>> Window Eyes. Or rather I wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows
>>>>>>> 7 32Bit Desktop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really needed to make this a genuine attempt. I decided to
>>>>>>> make it a social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to
>>>>>>> do this and if I go back to JAWS I've failed. So I announced on
>>>>>>> my twitter and Face Book feeds what I was going to do. I then
>>>>>>> sent updates several times a day including @gwmicro in the
>>>>>>> thread of the good, bad and ugly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the
>>>>>>> first three days was disgraceful! But when I learned how to use
>>>>>>> the Mouse Keys, started to read sections of the excellently
>>>>>>> layed out manual, joined this list and discovered Script Central
>>>>>>> I started to get a bit excited.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would
>>>>>>> do odd things. By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook
>>>>>>> 2K7. Scripts would crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load
>>>>>>> upon log-in. I discovered that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible
>>>>>>> as the fan boys and girls made it out to be. Oh yes and I got a
>>>>>>> healthy taster that no doubt End_users I've supported as a
>>>>>>> Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a time or too.
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine like
that".
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> maybe true but it's not a helpful response!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen
>>>>>>> Reader".
>>>>>>> JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system. Well, it would
>>>>>>> if it was still installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user
>>>>>>> error problems and bugs with Window Eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often
>>>>>>> make mistakes through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from
>>>>>>> this. However, there's allot going on in a person learning a new
>>>>>>> thing. Whither that is a computer program, folding lawndry etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some
>>>>>>> cases like the clipping words didn't' I just do the easy thing
>>>>>>> and switch back?
>>>>>>> Simple,
>>>>>>> I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either
>>>>>>> be worked round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm
>>>>>>> told of something I'm not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I
>>>>>>> want. In doing so I get the wonderful functionality and fresh
>>>>>>> approach Window Eyes has given to my computing. This compared to
>>>>>>> the stale product that did, serve me well for a time but has
>>>>>>> frankly become a bit of a farse in comparison. I.E.
>>>>>>> JAWS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their
>>>>>>> place. I believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The
>>>>>>> Zellots, (as I saw them at the time), who sat in each camp
>>>>>>> throwing muck back and forth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are
>>>>>>> using JAWS and struggling and want to cry out to them. Look, you
>>>>>>> dont' need to carry on with those bad habits you learned with
>>>>>>> JAWS. Tabbing all over the screen and not using keystrokes in
>>>>>>> say,and Installer Wizard of alt n for Next.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of
>>>>>>> how to use the JAWS Cursor. that's a real bug bear of mine now
>>>>>>> having used Window Eyes mouse Keys. the fact you need to
>>>>>>> completely switch to a different mode then back to the PC Cursor
>>>>>>> mode. no wonder people get confused!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short
>>>>>>> comings not to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific
>>>>>>> treat customers.
>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>> only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp
>>>>>>> of "My ones bigger than yours".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that
>>>>>>> use JAWS and I see struggling with the mindset it forces on
>>>>>>> people of the old and comfortable. By letting them see my
>>>>>>> completley fresh approach and no longer fear of trying something
>>>>>>> new just for fun. Sadly though I'm a geek and I believe most of
>>>>>>> my friends will discount what I'm doing as down to that.
>>>>>>> rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity
>>>>>>> as well".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts
>>>>>>> here!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Barry Toner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BCS Belfast Branch
>>>>>>> YPG Representative& Disability Group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Contact me @
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MSN/Live: djpaddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AIM/FB: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TWITTER: dj_paddy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Skype: djpaddy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of
>>>>>>> virus signature database 5104 (20100511) __________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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