[access-uk] Re: More on KNFB reader for phones
- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 20:28:02 -0000
hardly know who and what to reply to on this thread, (smile)!
Let's complicate it further still. Why not a download of the
software? Were that possible none of the arguments about shipping
costs, insurance, or possible snagging by customs should apply. Sure,
if a download were to be made available, which I'm certain won't
happen, some sort of UK and/or Euro charge would have to be added.
Where's the problem in that though, given that other US software
vendors manage to get their heads round it? Still, commercial self
interest and even greed will se to it that we don't get such a logical
solution to the software only option.
I believe that we would find that if some consumer organisation or the
dear old Beeb were to get their investigative teeth into this issue of
over pricing of Uk distribution then we'd find we as VI people have a
good deal in common with other disabled people with different needs
regarding this laid-back attitude of let it rip on the part of
distributors and resellers here. It seems a lazy bone idle way of
earning a living to me simply to wind up prices to the level that they
drag in what ever the vendor think they should be getting. Far better
if they devoted their efforts towards so called 'service' and genuine,
high quality training and support than a simple one off take the money
and run service we all too often end up with. Why are disability
products and services so immune from regulation and investigation by
those who devote so much time to the price of car imports and the
like?
Please note too, I'm not questioning the need of developers to earn a
return, but rather the smart arse way in which this product is
channelled in distribution through one distributor where price fixing
and lack of accountability to anyone, except maybe private share
holders, is entirely lacking.
I might also add, maybe unfashionably, that our beloved charities are
too taken with playing 'business' to consider an a subsidy or even a
cheap loan to make such an obviously enabling piece of tech more
widely available.
The US launch did suggest to me that the audience was stuffed with
more than a few NFB members, Ms. Kendrick being one of those. I'll
leave it
as an open question as to the American NfB's role in financing and
getting this valuable innovation onto the agenda, but we do have a
potentially, maybe actually, rather murky if not mucky relationship of
charity and business and the Lord only knows whether anyone will get
around to investigating that one!
From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
Steve Nutt
Subject: [access-uk] Re: More on KNFB reader for phones
Hi Gary,
Restriction is the right word here. No-one can resell KNFB Readers in
this
country, except S and S, so the pricing is then fixed. If KNFB would
open
it up to other resellers, it could get more interesting.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Gary Robinson
Sent: Sunday 3 February 2008 11:38
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: More on KNFB reader for phones
Hi Ray,
yes I must admit it's almost worth downloading just to listen to the
audience, thought it was a warm up for a Jerry Springer show!
Certainly
isn't like that at Sight Village!
So far as the cost of the software in the UK is concerned retailers
will
charge whatever they think they can get away with and in a single
product
marketplace where the retail outlets are tightly controlled by the
supplier
then they can more or less do what they like.
Two things strike me about the UK market in access technology, one is
why
there is no "bulk buying" by not for profit organizations and secondly
why
we haven't seen any evidence of Office of fair trading/DTI
investigations
into the restrictions which overseas suppliers impose on European
distributors/retailers into how they can sell the product. I suspect
this
latter point is behind much of the problem and I must admit that given
the
American NFB involvement in this product I am surprised it is
happening in
this case.
Don't get me wrong, retailers must make a reasonable profit, on the
whole I
think commercial retailers do a better job than some of the not for
profit
organizations as they tend to be more "real world" orientated, but we
seem
to be stuck in a low volume high price market place which is in itself
regressive.
I don't entirely agree with those who attempt to justify the high
prices by
saying its a small market. The size of the market is in my mind
artificially reduced by the high cost of the products which puts off
many
potential buyers or indeed charitable organizations who say not
unreasonably
"how can we justify spending so much money on helping just one
individual".
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:53 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: More on KNFB reader for phones
> Well, I've heard all 68 minutes or so of the presentation on the
KNFB
> embedded cell phone reader, and the listening is interesting for
more
> than the obvious reasons. Before I say more, some quick jump to
> points might be good for those who cannot waite to get to the meat.
>
> 23 minutes in givbes you Ray Kurtzveil's intro and future gazing -
and
> he's known as a futureologist. Things like image and object
> recognition improvements, including, he claims, faces.
>
> thirty minutes in or so, main presentation of what the present
> software does, and demos of it working on text, to tremendous
rapture
> by the audience.
>
> 50 minutes: Question time, including cost of software and phone
etc.
> and where Americans can buy.
>
> Speaking mostly from emory interesting points are the reader will
work
> in a phone without a screen reader, and one that's not activated.
> Very good Screen enlargement is also there too for those with some
> sight,. Good help and keyboard guidance built-in, and presenter
> believes the reader software should be usable with very minimal
> training for many if not most people.
>
> The phone itself (Nokia n82) measures 4" x 2" x1" thick, and weighs
in
> at 4 oz.in Its said to be very tacktile and the keys more
> identifiable than many. Sells for $500 or less in the US. Has
built
> in GPS MP3 player, and high quality camera of course. I say all
this
> to give some idea of what those fortunate enough to have the dosh
will
> get in the phone itself.
>
> The software, to be much improved on, turns out to cost $1595.00 in
> the US. Now, here's where we come to that pricing issue again.
that
> would equate to a straight UK conversionof less than ?800.00. So,
why
> cannot we have it for less than ?100.00? Say ?950.00 for reading
> anywhere! What a sales point that could be for those who can push
the
> poat out? AS opposed to rather more than that, seemingly.
>
> Not sure a UK audience or consumers are going to be quite so
raptured
> and take the message to the country as they're encouaged to do in
the
> US! The demo or presentation indeed had more the flavour of a
> revivalist meeting, with sounding horn, and loads of shrieking and
> applause. Maybe a sort of primary? Not without good reason!
>
> I only wish potential UK buyers had as much to shout about. AS it
is
> the software, as I say, is going for $1595.00, so God knows what the
> 37 dealers there actually pay for it. Or what our sole distributer
> pays for it, come to that. I'll bet is less than $1595.00. Okay,
so
> business is about profit; yes, I've got that message. When does
> profit turn to greed and extortion? Sorry folks, but yes, you can
> have a marvel of a device here, which can only get better. You'll
pay
> much more dearly for it than folks across the Atlantic. Unlike them
> too, you won't be accessing a 3 per cent loan to help buy it. That
in
> itself would be a good idea, but not sure why anyone should help
> bolster an already ludicrus profit margin.
>
> Those remarks aside, I do urge anyone who's not heard the launch of
> the KNFB cell phone reader to go on over to:
>
> http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=2614
>
> And download or simply listen to the file.
>
> Cheers,
>
> From Ray
> I can be contacted off-list at:
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Steve Nutt
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: More on KNFB reader for phones
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Well James Everson of Sight And Sound is on this list, so I would be
> very
> interested in his comments on this. As a reseller of adaptive tech,
I
> too
> feel this is overpricing, even allowing for overheads.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Ray's Home
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: More on KNFB reader for phones
>
> Paul, the 'over-inflated' UK price is more worthy of a post from me!
> (smile).
>
> Think the difference is three or four hundred quid! Presume there's
> no
> training being offered if you buy the software alone, as surely some
> will
> want to do. So, where exactly is the support and whatever in that?
> Sure
> many would like to pay rather less than a thousand quid for the
> software, if
> only they could!
>
> Wouldn't be so concerned if this was more obviously another leaning
on
> Access to work provision, but we're talking enhancing of dailly
living
> here.
> This makes it look very like extortion to me.
>
> I'd dearly like to see a defence of this, but as we often say here,
> I'm not
> holding my breath!
>
> Cheers,
>
> From Ray
> I can be contacted off-list at:
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Paul Leake
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: More on KNFB reader for phones
>
>
> an interesting presentation and an intention to continue to develop
> the
> product for the future. Pity that the u k price seems over inflated
> though!
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
> paul.leake@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 5:51 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] More on KNFB reader for phones
>
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Take a look, or should I say a listen, to this file. You can
> download it
>> from:-
>>
>> http://www.blindbargains.com/redirect.php?redirect=2614
>>
>> All the best
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