Sorry Steve, but your 'right' isn't everyone's by a long chalk! OK, so you get covered if someone does break into your account, but what a mess to have to clean up! For me 'reasonable' might mean Could a lot better. I see a strange contradiction too here between your wanting the Olypus recorder discussed here quite a lot to be 100 percent accessable, and the half way house - that in that instance - is what we have. Shouldn't you be satisfied? Maybe I shouldn't have come in on this, so just regard it as a statement of where I stand, rather than wanting to get into an argument. From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Hi Derek, Thanks for that, a nice clear explanation. Why don't people get the words reasonable and adjustment and settle for it sometimes? All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Derek Hornby Sent: 21 May 2007 20:35 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Fw: Response from Lloyds TSB re chip & pin at home Colin said: "You're guaranteed against fraud already provided you can evidence that you did not purposely allow your online details to be compromised. So what is the reasonable adjustment there?" Ok the bank can say: "here is your key pad you must use it" You can't, because blind. So the bank says: "ok as you can't use the key pad we will let you stay with old set-up." Reasonable adjustment! I think the point is, the key pads simply are aimed to cut the bank's losses. But at end of the day allowing us to stay with present system makes no difference to us, it just means the bank is willing to take the extra risk, but only for those that can't use the key pads. It's like chip & PIN in the shops. The banks would prefer everyone to use chip & Pin in the shops, but some people can't. So chip & signature is available. But those that use chip & signature, the banks take on the extra risk. Regards, Derek ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq