yes, I do think if the buck is going to continuously get passed on to PIP,
that there should be an additional equipment component added to it.
yes please, I would like to know who offers grants for this type of thing
still, as they do seem to be harder to find these days.
are these discounts and credit only for the original purchase, or do they
also cover the upgrades?
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: <gplongly@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2020 9:40 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely appreciated
Hi Simon
Firstly sight and sound offer credit so you can spread the cost of your
assistive tech products. Secondly you can take advantage of up to 80% off
during July during sight village month, this year this was extended from
April through the end of June because of coronavirus. Thirdly I think there
is some argument for there to be an equipment component for PIP unless you
class this as coming under the Care component. In some areas you're allowed
to use your direct payments for purchasing AT products and I have supplied
it in such cases. Henshaws have a list of grants on their website, I can
post the link if anyone wants it and I know at least one person who has
successfully obtained one for Duxbury recently and I also supply equipment
for another grant giving charity so there are grants out there if you look
for them.
I started with eh BBC micro model B, I could still read the screen then
although did try the speech programme for anyone who remembers it, I then
had an Amstrad 2086 with lunar for DOS and in 93 got a dolphin system
running hal 4 and open book which cost £3500 which I bought with some
inheritance money. I moved to jaws in 96 when I went to work for a bank as
hal for windows wasn't out and have used jaws since version 1 and still have
the disks here somewhere. Cheers! Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Ibrahim
Gucukoglu
Sent: 04 July 2020 03:24
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely appreciated
Hi.
We have choices, that is the beautiful thing about the accessibility
landscape today. I know I can purchase JAWS if I want to, but I also know
that NVDA and Narrator are superb alternatives that are free to
download/use. Coming from the days where I cut my teeth on DOS, where a
physical speech synthesiser and screen reading software had to be factored
into the cost of purchasing a computer making it all but unviable for all
but the most well heeled or funded to have a machine in their own home,
we've never had it so good. Just typing this, I can feel my shoulder begin
to ache at the thought of carrying round a laptop computer, speech synth and
the bulky power adapters of the day *smile*.
All the best, Ibrahim.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of goshawk
on horseback
Sent: 03 July 2020 20:30
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely appreciated
that's not really the point, the point is that everyone seems to want to
offload every such cost like this on to PIP all the time, and it simply
doesn't stretch that far.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Farley (Redacted sender "john_farley" for DMARC)"
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:56 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and Human
Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely appreciated
Simon,
What do you expect your PIP to cover?
Regards John
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
goshawk on horseback
Sent: 03 July 2020 19:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
I for one am really sick of people always trying to pass the buck on
to PIP all the time, with out realizing that when they do this, it
doesn't stretch that far to meet all those buck passers.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie Brown" <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 5:08 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
To be fair though, JAWS tends to be discounted at this time of year,practicality.
as are the SMA prices. And if you can't afford JAWS even at the
discounted price, then you have Narrator and NVDA. I know this is
contentious, but we do receive PIP to assist with such costs. I know
there are charities who offer grants, though I appreciate you have to
jump through a lot of hoops to avail of them. I guess it depends
what you consider to be more important in what lifestyle choices you
make, there is no such thing as a free lunch. I sometimes wonder
what is being done to JAWS every single year to justify the SMA, but
it's important to me to use it so I accept that it has to keep
up-to-date with Microsoft if I want to continue using Windows. For
example, you won't get away with using Microsoft 365 or Microsoft
Edge if you continue to cling to an older version of JAWS. That
means having to pay for the updates, that's just the way it is if you
want to shop or bank online safely. If nobody paid for JAWS updates,
and there were no SMA pathways, your computing experience would begin
to deteriorate pretty quickly if you wanted to keep updating Windows.
Yes you could stay put on an old version of JAWS running on an old
version of Windows, but your options would decrease substantially.
If you resent the FS model, learn the Mac and depend solely on Apple
for your accessibility, thousands of blind people do and love it.
Kind regards,
Jackie Brown
Email: jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
goshawk on horseback
Sent: 03 July 2020 16:42
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
since the scrapping of window-eyes by FS, I would disagree, as that's
one choice less now.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie Brown" <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 9:03 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is absolutely
appreciated
Hi Steve and David
I agree with you both. I jump to NVDA and Narrator when I have to,
but I do think JAWS has it when it comes to proofreading and Braille
support.
It's a pointless argument anyway, people have to do what they are
comfortable with, and at least there are more screen reader choices
than there used to be.
Kind regards,
Jackie Brown
Email: jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Steve Nutt
Sent: 03 July 2020 08:51
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is
absolutely appreciated
Hi David,
This is why I agree with you too.
If you are a home user, or hobbyist, then NVDA or Narrator is enough.
But if you need advanced screen reading, then it currently has to be
JAWS.
What other screen reader for example, offers text analysis? This is
crucial to me to make presentable documents.
I agree that NVDA and Narrator far out perform JAWS in aspects such
as responsiveness, but that is not enough for someone in employment.
All the best
Steve
--
Computer Room Services
77 Exeter Close
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 4PW
T: +44(0)1438-742286
M: +44(0)7956-334938
F: +44(0)1438-759589
E: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
W: https://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
David Griffith
Sent: 03 July 2020 00:19
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific, between Capitalism and
Human Rights, your participation in this crucial dialog is
absolutely appreciated
Whilst I am sympathetic to the frustration expressed here I believe
that I will be a Jaws user for the foreseeable future. This is
because I consider access not just a matter of principle but of
here shall naturally be, why?I want the best possible access solutions currently available on my
tech so that I can achieve the best standard of productivity and
quality in the admittedly limited hours of work I perform. I am
nearly completely retired now but would still urge anybody in
employment who is dependent on a screenreader to seek the full
range of screen reading assistance available. It is tough enough
competing with sighted colleague to provide best value employee
performance as good as or better than a sighted employee without
sacrificing all the tools at your disposal.
I use not just Jaws but NVDA and Narrator every week in a myriad of
tasks.
Unfortunately there are a whole range of situations in which NVDA
or Narrator just will not cut it and I need to use Jaws. I freely
admit there are occasions that NVDA, and increasingly Narrator, will
in some tasks perform better than Jaws.
This does not gainsay the truth that Jaws, and especially the Jaws
cursor is required in many situations where NVDA and Narrator both
fail completely.
Just this evening I was having to use a m4b to mp3 convertor. This
is completely impossible to use with NVDA and Narrator. Both the
add and convert buttons could only be found by the Jaws cursor.
So to put it bluntly I am not prepared to cripple aspect of my
access in order to satisfy frustrations against FS. Whether FS can
justify all their pricing structures is another matter. I see no
realistic way that they could provide Jaws for free. Whilst they
remain a third party business and not part of mainstream OS funding
I can seen no business model which does not require them to employ
staff to keep their products updated in a constantly changing OS
environment. An old version of Jaws will simply not work today.
. tiff.
The alternative of using largely unpaid volunteer resources with a
small core of employees to update products is the route pursued by
NVDA, but even here there are costs met by donations and grants from
blindness organisations alongside other grants from people like
Microsoft. There is really no free lunch.
David G.
On 2 Jul 2020, at 22:09, Mostafa Almahdywrote:
<mostafa.almahdy@xxxxxxxxx>
Freedom Scientific is the largest manufacturer that produces
assistive technology solutions worldwide. Nonetheless, it
manipulates this throttled market through base policy. At its
inception, it charges visually impaired clients so high to qualify
them licensed to use Jaws, for certain time. After their license
period has expired, they are required to upgrade, through paying
substantial amount to temporarily use the license again and after
awhile, it eventually expires. You are now trapped in this vicious
cycle. To perpetually use their Jaws, you have got to pay them
money, relentlessly. And, despite what they throw at you in their
unvalued mendings, updates etc, you ought to give them money, with
a smile. Even scripts which are additional elements destined to
enhance performance, are going to cost you a fortune. Now, the
question
you folks?product?What for do I need to pay all this, to obtain a not so well given
People are generically enslaved to this concept. Jaws has somewhat
influenced its users to unconsciously pay to keep upgraded, without
asking themselves, um, is it really worth it? Freedom Scientific
takes advantage of its broadly mega establishment to tremendously
dominate more people and trammel them into the Jaws immense delusion.
I fortuitously, have wholly emancipated myself from this grave deceit.
Why am I need to be infinitely impounded to such capitalistic entity?
Furthermore, by doing so, Freedom Scientific explicitly violates
human rights declaration recognised by United Nations consignment,
which plainly states, that equal access of information is eminently
professed to everyone. Thence, I mutually urge firm Jaws users and
Freedom Scientific staff to interact with this proposition. I do
not attempt here to politicise the matter. But for certain, this
conversation has got an ethical scope affiliated with it. I am keen
to stiffen this useful discussion and exchange opinions. I
personally feel so comfortable using open source solutions. What
about
Do you feel somewhat compelled to stick to Jaws, despite the fact,
that it costs you more than what it actually deserves? Is the money
you pay worth what Jaws offers? I in this undisclosed list, have
included Freedom Scientific representatives, to hear their
perspective as well. I just hope, not to be shunned, disposed or
affronted based on my sentimental notions. I now look forward to
hearing from people, everywhere across the globe. Thanks for
reading, Mustafa
--
(Seeking knowledge is compulsory from cratle to grave because it is
a shoreless ocean.)
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