Hello David,I had the combi-boiler maintenance man come last Thursday and return again today. He had made a few adjustments to the boiler set-up and came to check the pressure, etc, to see if they had worked. He made another adjustment or two and said that he thought that my loss of pressure problem would now be cured.
Apparently, due to the way my system is set-up and the way I use it, it was occasionally over pressurising and then the emergency outlet was shooting water out to reduce this and thus falling back to a level of pressure below that recommended. This was his conclusion and only time will tell if this turns out to be correct. Hopefully it will be. Having left it for a week, it did not lose any pressure with his adjustments.
As far as the expansion vessel is concerned which you were interested in, my guess was right. It's in the boiler itself. Modern combi-boilers do not have an expansion tank external to the boiler but a smaller, internal container. They also have a by-pass pipe between the inlet of water and outlet of water to the boiler itself and it is this by-pass pipe which has an adjustment valve on it which he has mainly been adjusting.
Well, we will see if things work as they should now. He tells me that a new system like mine should not need topping up at all between its annual adding of protective rust-proving liquid and re-pressurising at that time.
Regards, John.----- Original Message ----- From: "David W Wood" <g3yxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:07 PMSubject: [access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was: combi-boilers. longish reply
John: Very interesting.When your installers are their, maybe ask them if there is such a device.If not, how does the system function properly?If it is a sealed system, then heating up will increase its pressure and when hot maybe blow the pressure valve - this could explain why it isloosing heat.I wouldn't like to make an assumption however without knowing more about thesystem - please let us know when they have been? David -----Original Message-----From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf OfJohn Wilson Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:58 AM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: [access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was: combi-boilers. longish replyHello again David, I understand the need for this expansion ability you mention. Yes, the pressure does go up when the system isworking/hot. The pressures I have been mentioning have beenwhen the system is working. As far as this 6 by 8 inch pressure vessel is concerned Ihave nothing of this kind on the outside of the boiler, so Imust assume that it is internal to the boiler unit. Thanks, all the same. John.----- Original Message ----- From: "David WE Wood" <g3yxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:58 AMSubject: [access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was: combi-boilers.longish replyHello John: Assuming that the system is sealed, which is quite likely as you are mentioning that you have a pressure gauge on the system, when the system iscold, the pressure will be less than when it is hot as thewater will expand as it heats to, say, 60C. In order to keep the pressure at a constant level (you mention a typical 1.5 bar) their needs to be scope for expansion to maintain that pressure. This is achieved with a pressure vessel which is made of metal and typically has a three quarter inch BSP female connector and is fitted onto either the flow or return of the system which has a T connector onto which it fits.In a typical 3 bedroom house, this would be about 6 inchesin diameter, and about 8 inches long. Across its equator is a flexible membrane, and at the opposite end to its BSP connection is a Schrader valve.When the system is cold, a pump is applied to the valve toestablish the 1.5 bar pressure. As the system expands, the membrane is displaced thus increasing the volume of the system, hence maintaining the chosen pressure. Boyle's law: Pressure times volume equals constant.The size of this vessel is determined in proportion to thetotal of the volume of the system. Sorry for the mix of quoted units, to make it more correct, I should have mentioned atmospheres in stead of bars, thus making the description totally in imperial units! Hth David -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Wilson Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:54 AM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] For David Wood: was: combi-boilers. Hello David, Thanks for the feedback. However, what is this pressure vessel. I have never heard of such a thing. Perhaps my type of combi-boiler does not employ one. There is no mention of this in the manual I was left and no one has mentioned such a thing to me. John.----- Original Message ----- From: "David W Wood" <g3yxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:01 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: O/T but does anyone on the list have an Ideal Isar combi-boiler?Hi John: I have had a sealed system in my work premises for some 20 years, purely for 16 radiators on the ground floor with a conventional vented system with 10 radiators and hot cylinder on the first floor.I have always had the same problem as you with the sealedsystem, and no sign of leaks. One important point is to make sure the pressure vessel is kept topped up - this should be shown to you by the installers. The reason for the boiler rattling will be because of build-up of gases which will accumulate in the high point or points of the installation. David -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Wilson Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:04 PM To: Access UKSubject: [access-uk] O/T but does anyone on the list havean Ideal Isar combi-boiler? Hello All, Sorry for the O/T posting but I'm sure that some people on here will be able to compare notes and give valuable feedback. I have had an Ideal Isar combi-boiler now for a year and amof the opinion that the pipework may be leaking under thedownstairs floor boards. Other people I have spoken to (but with different boilers) tell me that they rarely, if ever, have to top up the pressure in their central heating system. However, I find that I have to do this every three or fourweeks. The pressure will have fallen from the recommended1.5 bars to only 0.5 bars or even lower, causing the boiler to become noisy with a vibrating effect. Does anyone else find this to be the case with these boilers and systems? I am about to report it to the fitters but wanted to know what the norm for the frequency of pressure top up of these systems is firstly from any other users. All contributions appreciated. John. ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faqNo virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1364 - Release Date: 07/04/2008 18:38 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. 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