[access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

  • From: "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:19:23 +0100

Hi Eleanor

yes George is correct about Freedom Of information act.

Someone high up in RNIb has just emaile me.
I think goal posts are mvinf!

See below


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Eleanor Martha Burke
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 3:38 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Derek should ask under freedom of information if the correspondence
between his bank and RNIB could be disclosed to him so he could see
exactly what is going on.



On 22 Jul 2015, at 15:33, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Derek,

I rather suspect that it's the other way round, Derek.

The bank would have been obliged to ask RNIB if they could be
compliant, in which case, RNIB would have said that because they would
not be able to meet PCI requirements, they could no longer do this.

That would then put Nat West in the awkward position of finding a
way round it themselves.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 15:23
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Hi Richard
To clarify.

The bank asked RNIB to-do the Braille.

So the point is RNIB says no and the reasons don't seem clear to
me.

Surely if the bank asks an organisation to doa braille job, and
if the customer is happy then what's the problem?



Regards, Derek



-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Richard Godfrey-McKay
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 3:16 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Hello Alison, I'm sure you must be right that the problem is not
that of RNIB but of the bank, as the service provider.

I certainly didn't want to suggest that there was any lack of good
will on the part of RNIB - although there may well be a lack of common
sense and lack of knowledge in banks!

Richard
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Telephone: 01738-445 880
Mobile: 07791 452 593


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Long, Alison
Sent: 22 July 2015 15:09
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Hello Richard
I think in this instance the obligation is on the bank to provide
the service, rather than RNIB. If we could, we would, as a third party
provider.
In fairness to HSBC they have provided an alternative through
another provider, but used card rather than plastic. They are looking
at alternatives and have been in touch with us to find out how we
produced the plastic cards, so the good will is definitely there.
Regards
Alison


Alison Long
Reading Services Senior Manager, RNIB Newsagent & Load2Learn

Solutions Team
RNIB (Royal National Institute of Blind People) Bakewell Road Orton
Southgate Peterborough
PE2 6XU
Tel: 01733 375178
Mobile: 07967 960129

Website: www.rnib.org.uk

Join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/rnibuk Follow us on twitter:
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online at www.insightradio.co.uk via the TuneIn or Radio Player
apps.





-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Richard Godfrey-McKay
Sent: 22 July 2015 14:58
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

All, This is a really difficult and interesting question, and one to
which I don't have a definite answer; you'd need a specialist lawyer
for an opinion, I think.

On the one hand, I can totally understand why card providers would
require merchants to follow particular procedures to guard against
insecure methods of handling card details, but on the other there is
the requirement for service providers to make the much talked about
"reasonable adjustments" to
ensure that their services are accessible to disabled people.

My uninformed guess is that, with a bit of good will and common
sense, there's a solution which would not affect adversely the
interests of either party.

Unfortunately, it's my experience that common sense may be in short
supply in these situations!

Richard
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Telephone: 01738-445 880
Mobile: 07791 452 593


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Long, Alison
Sent: 22 July 2015 14:13
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Thanks George, you're absolutely right. PCI is extremely strict, as
we've learnt. I apologise that I didn't give Derek more detail at the
time.
Regards
Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: 22 July 2015 12:12
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Derek, Clive and all,

On reflection, I can understand RNIB's predicament.

RNIB, for obvious reasons, accept cards for purchases. The security
rules are therefore extremely strict, and I am aware that they have
had quite a struggle in this regard.

In general terms, our own bank refers to the, "Payment Card Industry
(PCI)
Data Security Standard (DSS) Programme".

I suggest anyone who wishes to know more takes a look at:
https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/merchants/

There is a specific link to individual card processor such as Visa
and MasterCard here:

https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/merchants/how_to_be_compliant.php

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 22 July 2015 11:56
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Hi Derek,

I'm dismayed by the number of times services go downhill in terms of
V I accessibility because the supplier has changed. That indicates a
fault in their commissioning and procurement systems that takes for
granted access issues and doesn't state them as a mandatory
requirement in new contracts for old services. Another example was the
one where someone, possibly on this list, reported their delight at
finding a talking ATM at their local supermarket, then their dismay
when the ATM was replaced by a silent one, because they'd gone to a
different provider and not asked. Though I don't understand why the
RNIB are declining to do this when other providers are willing, the
more service providers get the message to their contractors that if it
doesn't work for our disabled customers, it's not fit for our purpose,
the better it will be for all of us.

Best,
Clive


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 11:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Hi Clive

yes and they said:

"Hello Derek

To clarify, RNIB advised HSBC that we were unable to produce the
cards due to additional security arrangements we put in place.
HSBC are now working with another provider"

I have now asked RNIB what are the
additional security arrangements they put in place.

What seems strange is that if another organisation is able to
help the bank why not RNIB?

Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 11:08 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

Hello George and Derek,

I must admit it seemed a bit odd to me to, unless they would contend
that the Braille would need to be added on the card with additional
human input - in other words that A N Other would have to know your
bank details in order to reproduce them in dots. So, like you George,
I'd be interested not only in the regulations themselves, but the
specific reasoning behind the refusal 'die tp secirotu reasons".
Derek, have you followed up by asking the RNIB: "Precisely what
security reasons, and which regulations are we talking about here"?

Best,
Clive


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: 22 July 2015 10:29
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

I have to wonder, since this information is already in print on the
card.

I could understand if they had something like a PIN number, but that
does not appear to be the case.

Is it at all possible to get a copy of these regulations from
anywhere?

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 10:19
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

They are unable to provide a plastic card that has in Braille the
following:

card number
security number
Valid from date
and expire date


The point is they were able to do it for past
30+ years.

So what has changed now?

Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Yusuf Osman
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 10:06 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc

I'm obviously missing something, what are they unable to do?
Yusuf

I've set up a FundMe account to help cover the ongoing costs of my
PhD. I'd be very grateful if you'd consider donating. Thank you!
https://www.gofundme.com/lhj928
Why not follow me on Twitter at:
yusuf_oy
Facebook:
/yusuf.osman.188

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 10:01
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] FW: RNIB and hsbc

Here is what RNIB says


"We are unable to do this now for security reasons. We stopped
producing them to meet new compliance requirements around security."

Regards, Derek

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