Derek should ask under freedom of information if the correspondence between his
bank and RNIB could be disclosed to him so he could see exactly what is going
on.
On 22 Jul 2015, at 15:33, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
Derek,
I rather suspect that it's the other way round, Derek.
The bank would have been obliged to ask RNIB if they could be compliant, in
which case, RNIB would have said that because they would not be able to meet
PCI requirements, they could no longer do this.
That would then put Nat West in the awkward position of finding a way round
it themselves.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 15:23
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Hi Richard
To clarify.
The bank asked RNIB to-do the Braille.
So the point is RNIB says no and the reasons don't seem clear to me.
Surely if the bank asks an organisation to doa braille job, and if the
customer is happy then what's the problem?
Regards, Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 3:16 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Hello Alison, I'm sure you must be right that the problem is not that of RNIB
but of the bank, as the service provider.
I certainly didn't want to suggest that there was any lack of good will on
the part of RNIB - although there may well be a lack of common sense and lack
of knowledge in banks!
Richard
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Telephone: 01738-445 880
Mobile: 07791 452 593
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Long, Alison
Sent: 22 July 2015 15:09
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Hello Richard
I think in this instance the obligation is on the bank to provide the
service, rather than RNIB. If we could, we would, as a third party provider.
In fairness to HSBC they have provided an alternative through another
provider, but used card rather than plastic. They are looking at
alternatives and have been in touch with us to find out how we produced the
plastic cards, so the good will is definitely there.
Regards
Alison
Alison Long
Reading Services Senior Manager, RNIB Newsagent & Load2Learn
Solutions Team
RNIB (Royal National Institute of Blind People) Bakewell Road Orton Southgate
Peterborough
PE2 6XU
Tel: 01733 375178
Mobile: 07967 960129
Website: www.rnib.org.uk
Join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/rnibuk Follow us on twitter:
www.twitter.com/rnib
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online at www.insightradio.co.uk via the TuneIn or Radio Player apps.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Sent: 22 July 2015 14:58
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
All, This is a really difficult and interesting question, and one to which I
don't have a definite answer; you'd need a specialist lawyer for an opinion,
I think.
On the one hand, I can totally understand why card providers would require
merchants to follow particular procedures to guard against insecure methods
of handling card details, but on the other there is the requirement for
service providers to make the much talked about "reasonable adjustments" to
ensure that their services are accessible to disabled people.
My uninformed guess is that, with a bit of good will and common sense,
there's a solution which would not affect adversely the interests of either
party.
Unfortunately, it's my experience that common sense may be in short supply in
these situations!
Richard
Richard Godfrey-McKay
Telephone: 01738-445 880
Mobile: 07791 452 593
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Long, Alison
Sent: 22 July 2015 14:13
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Thanks George, you're absolutely right. PCI is extremely strict, as we've
learnt. I apologise that I didn't give Derek more detail at the time.
Regards
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: 22 July 2015 12:12
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Derek, Clive and all,
On reflection, I can understand RNIB's predicament.
RNIB, for obvious reasons, accept cards for purchases. The security rules
are therefore extremely strict, and I am aware that they have had quite a
struggle in this regard.
In general terms, our own bank refers to the, "Payment Card Industry
(PCI)
Data Security Standard (DSS) Programme".
I suggest anyone who wishes to know more takes a look at:
https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/merchants/
There is a specific link to individual card processor such as Visa and
MasterCard here:
https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/merchants/how_to_be_compliant.php
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 22 July 2015 11:56
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Hi Derek,
I'm dismayed by the number of times services go downhill in terms of V I
accessibility because the supplier has changed. That indicates a fault in
their commissioning and procurement systems that takes for granted access
issues and doesn't state them as a mandatory requirement in new contracts for
old services. Another example was the one where someone, possibly on this
list, reported their delight at finding a talking ATM at their local
supermarket, then their dismay when the ATM was replaced by a silent one,
because they'd gone to a different provider and not asked. Though I don't
understand why the RNIB are declining to do this when other providers are
willing, the more service providers get the message to their contractors that
if it doesn't work for our disabled customers, it's not fit for our purpose,
the better it will be for all of us.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 11:32
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Hi Clive
yes and they said:
"Hello Derek
To clarify, RNIB advised HSBC that we were unable to produce the cards due to
additional security arrangements we put in place.
HSBC are now working with another provider"
I have now asked RNIB what are the
additional security arrangements they put in place.
What seems strange is that if another organisation is able to help the
bank why not RNIB?
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 11:08 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
Hello George and Derek,
I must admit it seemed a bit odd to me to, unless they would contend that the
Braille would need to be added on the card with additional human input - in
other words that A N Other would have to know your bank details in order to
reproduce them in dots. So, like you George, I'd be interested not only in
the regulations themselves, but the specific reasoning behind the refusal
'die tp secirotu reasons".
Derek, have you followed up by asking the RNIB: "Precisely what security
reasons, and which regulations are we talking about here"?
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: 22 July 2015 10:29
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
I have to wonder, since this information is already in print on the card.
I could understand if they had something like a PIN number, but that does not
appear to be the case.
Is it at all possible to get a copy of these regulations from anywhere?
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 10:19
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
They are unable to provide a plastic card that has in Braille the
following:
card number
security number
Valid from date
and expire date
The point is they were able to do it for past
30+ years.
So what has changed now?
Derek
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Yusuf Osman
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 10:06 AM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: FW: RNIB and hsbc
I'm obviously missing something, what are they unable to do?
Yusuf
I've set up a FundMe account to help cover the ongoing costs of my PhD. I'd
be very grateful if you'd consider donating. Thank you!
https://www.gofundme.com/lhj928
Why not follow me on Twitter at:
yusuf_oy
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Derek Hornby
Sent: 22 July 2015 10:01
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] FW: RNIB and hsbc
Here is what RNIB says
"We are unable to do this now for security reasons. We stopped producing
them to meet new compliance requirements around security."
Regards, Derek
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