[access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
- From: "Adrien Collins" <adriencollins22160@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:55:11 +0200
Hi Carol
Ok I have the e-mail address as I have used it before, I will find out about
getting the new braille code, I don't want the whole rule book. Thanks.
Regards
Adrien
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Carol.Pearson29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 7:01 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
Adrian,
RNIB will send the braille code documents out to you, if you request them
from the Helpline, and they're talking about workshops (phonecalls) with
anyone interested, so enquire about those. There's a sample document, but
in with it there's a booklet with little essays about braille which are
written in UEB.
I am not sure whether we've actually got the email address for the Helpline
but no doubt someone will tell you here, should you need it.
Carol P
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrien Collins" <adriencollins22160@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 2:33 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
> Hi
>
> Ok if they want us to use ueb then there should be help for us who cannot
> use braille very well to learn the new system, I have no idea how ueb
> works, only the info I have gleamed off these groups. If I contact the
> rnib to get the braille code to refresh my memory, as I have done in the
> past, they should be able to put me straight but I think it is all done
> through the braille authority now. What help is available to help us to
> learn the new code or even the changes to the code? I have no objection to
> using it if only I knew more about it.
>
> Regards
>
> Adrien
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:04 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Hello George,
>
> Perhaps the message to U E B nay-sayers would be something like: Pain is
> only temporary, but it bloody well hurts at the time. In the words of
> Albus Dumbledor, it's for the greater good.
>
> I don't expect braille reading to be as easy for me in the immediate
> future as it has been in recent years, but you learn you adapt, you move
> on, and after a while you almost forget that things were ever different -
> you just read.
>
> Best,
> Clive
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of George Bell
> Sent: 31 March 2015 11:52
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> You have certainly hit one nail on the head with a good old fashioned
> sledge hammer, Dave.
>
> I do a lot of work with 3rd world countries, and virtually everyone I
> speak to there is absolutely delighted that finally they can look forward
> to just one single form of English literary Braille.
>
> George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Dave Sheridan
> Sent: 31 March 2015 11:16
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Thanks Clive, I also feel that if it results in more opportunities for
> braille learners in developing countries, which it's likely to do, then
> unifying english braille is a huge positive.
>
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 31 Mar 2015, at 10:06, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>> Hello David,
>>
>> Coming to this message a bit late I'm afraid. If the introduction of U E
>> B will mean in the long run that there will be more emphasis in teaching
>> literature and literacy through Braille in our schools, and it helps to
>> reverse the trend in which it is assumed that the computer renders
>> Braille an 'old skool' skill, however the changes affect us old stagers,
>> they will be a force for good. Also, I'd rather see good U E B than bad
>> traditional English Braille. In short, let's get our kids reading again,
>> and get the powers that be to admit that it's not the same as being read
>> to by Mister and missus Sapi, or whomever.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Clive
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>> Sent: 27 March 2015 22:51
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>
>> Thanks George for giving clear reasons for UEB. Like others on this
>> list I guess I was able to complete the survey sent out about UEB
>> several years ago. As someone who had, at the time, worked in
>> education for about 30 years I saw the necessity for change even
>> though it would feel uncomfortable on a personal level. I taught
>> braille for 14 years before retiring last year. Along with the reasons
>> George has stated there are clear benefits to our younger generation
>> in education. The only means of identifying any emphasised text in
>> braille till now has been through the use of italics, ueb changes
>> this. The only accent sign usable in SEB has been dot 4, again UEB
>> changes this. I do agree that one should learn in school when a
>> capital is used and for this reason I was against the use of the
>> capitals sign up till now. the 63 braille characters can be used far
>> more effectively as we will learn in time through ueb but those
>> benefits will mostly be experienced by those much younger th
> an
>> ourselves. I, for one, can put up with the inconvenience changes will
>> make to my use of braille for a while if that benefits young braille
>> learners and users.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 16:45, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> For every single change, there has been very good reason. The UEB
>>> project began over 20 years ago, and has been no secret.
>>>
>>> Harmonising the rules such ALL English braille is the same, makes
>>> perfect sense. Many readers may never receive hard copy English braille
>>> from other countries, but be assured there is a great deal of material
>>> which crosses borders internationally. Indeed it might surprise you to
>>> know that many schools, universities and exam boards call for braille
>>> from the UK and of course America.
>>>
>>> Another major consideration is the huge cost of producing braille. You
>>> can purchase an ink jet printer for as little as �40, but even a
>>> personal braille embosser will set you back more than fifty times that,
>>> before you even buy paper.
>>>
>>> In the production arena, the cost of hardware is even more, but that's
>>> only part of the exercise. Transcription itself has to be automated to
>>> keep costs down. Good braille producers will proof read, but again this
>>> means paying someone. But what is actually being proofed? I will
>>> almost guarantee that well over 50% of mistakes found occur in the
>>> original print version.
>>>
>>> There is also a growing need to back-translate, and UEB eliminates many
>>> of the issue there.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 15:23
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> Hi Derek
>>>
>>> I'm not against capitalisation, but I do rather wish Braille was left
>>> alone.
>>> Although I prefer audio books nowadays, I do still care passionately
>>> about Braille, and have it as part of my life.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Derek Hornby
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 14:51
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie
>>> Capitalisation, should be taught at school, as part of computer related
>>> lessons.
>>>
>>> One may just as easily argue that we shouldn't have grade 2 Braille,
>>> on the grounds the grade 2 abbreviations don't apply for print!
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards, Derek
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:42 PM
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> I'm not opposed to capitalisation, I think it is important for Braille
>>> readers to identify the differences in written language. I will be
>>> interested to read some of these changes in literature when they come
>>> into effect. I guess whether I like it or not it's happening anyway!
>>> (smile)
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:30
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> Hi Derek,
>>>
>>> I feel the answer to point two is that it'll be easier to share books
>>> across borders. It'll be a good thing in the long term if it means that
>>> more books, or files for producing them, can be shared more widely and
>>> read more easily throughout the English-speaking world.
>>>
>>> As to point three, if you read capitalisation you'll more likely be
>>> able to write it properly, and so your written communications will be
>>> more presentable in what is, after all, a sighted world. The problem
>>> is that only
>>> 64 symbols to play with, you end up with a complicated system of dot
>>> sixes in different places to imply that a whole passage is capitalised,
>>> or a whole passage has initial caps, or a word is entirely capitalised,
>>> or a word has it's first letter written in upper case. This is what I
>>> meant by the risk of letters drowning in a sea of additional braille
>>> symbols. That's why I wrote all that random jibberish around the word
>>> 'Best', in my previous message. I won't do it again.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Clive
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of David Griffith
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:11
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> I have taken the liberty of changing the subject line as the discussion
>>> below whilst important now has little to do with RNIB Branding.
>>>
>>> David Griffith
>>>
>>>> On 27/03/2015 12:49, Derek Hornby wrote:
>>>> Hi Dave
>>>> The problem I have with the Braille changes are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. The changes were not put to the vote.
>>>> So change was forced on us, or imposed on us.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Just because one side of the world does something doesn't mean
>>> the
>>>> whole world must do same. So I do not see why each country
>>>> can not make it's own rules abot braille, given that
>>>> each country makes its own rules about terminology.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Braille, is not print, so I fail to understand why we need to
>>>> show uppercase in braille.
>>>> And why do we need to show boldface in braille!
>>>>
>>>> 4. RNIB has akready started cut backs in braille production
>>> for
>>>> example New Beacon (NB) is now only online, same is true for
>>>> Insight.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Derek
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:14 PM
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>
>>>> Whilst I agree fundamentally with the issue of terminology the
>>> changes
>>>> being made to Braille and the rules that come with this are a
>>>> different matter and I have to disagree with you Jackie and Derek on
>>>
>>>> this. On the terminology matter, with sight loss covers much more
>>>> people than those who need the services of RNIB from my perspective.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 11:35, Jackie Brown
>>>>>> <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Derek
>>>>>
>>>>> Couldn't agree with you more. Do people interfere with how
>>>> handwriting is
>>>>> done? I don't mind embracing change, but I personally don't think
>>>> it is
>>>>> necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh dear, never mind, perhaps I'm just getting too old and too
>>>> cynical to
>>>>> bother any more! (smile).
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Derek Hornby
>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 11:21
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jac kie
>>>>> And now it's back to school to learn the new Braille rules!
>>>>> If not broken why do they try to fix it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Derek
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 10:50 AM
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Clive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is some rebranding going on as RNIB now has this RNIB
>>> Approved
>>>> feature
>>>>> as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>>
>>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info <http://www.thebrownsplace.info>
>>>>>
>>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 10:34
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not expecting a discussion here, but please can anyone tell me
>>>> off list
>>>>> when the strap-line on RNIB's web pages changed from:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Supporting Blind and Partially-Sighted People" to:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Supporting People with Sight Loss". The supplementary question is:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clive
>>>>> Clive Lever
>>>>>
>>>>> Diversity and Equality Officer
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Office: 03000 416388
>>>>>
>>>>> Email: clive.lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>>
>>>>> Room G37
>>>>>
>>>>> Sessions House
>>>>>
>>>>> Maidstone, Kent.
>>>>>
>>>>> ME14 1XQ
>
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>
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