[access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille

  • From: George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:20:06 +0000

That would be the full blown UEB Rule book which is 344 print pages.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Adrien Collins
Sent: 31 March 2015 16:21
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille

Hi 

One of them was twice that price, I think it was in multiple volumes. Cannot 
think what it was called.  

Regards

Adrien


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Dave Sheridan
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 5:07 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille

The new braille primer for EUB costs about  10. 

Dave 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Mar 2015, at 15:17, Adrien Collins <adriencollins22160@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> Hi George
> 
> Ok fine but apart from the new braille primer or whatever it is called and 
> costs an arm and a leg, where can I get a list of the changes, I don't want a 
> full list, just a list of what is different. I think I contacted the braille 
> authority last year and they just referred me back to the rnib. It should be 
> easy until you come to other braille codes I would think.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Adrien
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of George Bell
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 3:42 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
> 
> Hi Adrien,
> 
> I would be more than surprised if you found any major difficulty.  Letters 
> and numbers are the same as always.  A few contractions have been dropped, 
> and a few punctuation signs have been changed.
> 
> George
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of Adrien Collins
> Sent: 31 March 2015 14:33
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
> 
> Hi
> 
> Ok if they want us to use ueb then there should be help for us who cannot use 
> braille very well to learn the new system, I have no idea how ueb works, only 
> the info I have gleamed off these groups. If I contact the rnib to get the 
> braille code to refresh my memory, as I have done in the past, they should be 
> able to put me straight but I think it is all done through the braille 
> authority now. What help is available to help us to learn the new code or 
> even the changes to the code? I have no objection to using it if only I knew 
> more about it.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Adrien
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:04 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
> 
> Hello George,
> 
> Perhaps the message to U E B nay-sayers would be something like: Pain is only 
> temporary, but it bloody well hurts at the time. In the words of Albus 
> Dumbledor, it's for the greater good.
> 
> I don't expect braille reading to be as easy for me in the immediate future 
> as it has been in recent years, but you learn you adapt, you move on, and 
> after a while you almost forget that things were ever different - you just 
> read.
> 
> Best,
> Clive
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of George Bell
> Sent: 31 March 2015 11:52
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
> 
> You have certainly hit one nail on the head with a good old fashioned sledge 
> hammer, Dave.
> 
> I do a lot of work with 3rd world countries, and virtually everyone I speak 
> to there is absolutely delighted that finally they can look forward to just 
> one single form of English literary Braille.
> 
> George
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
> Sent: 31 March 2015 11:16
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
> 
> Thanks Clive, I also feel that if it results in more opportunities for 
> braille learners in developing countries, which it's likely to do, then 
> unifying english braille is a huge positive. 
> 
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 31 Mar 2015, at 10:06, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> 
>> Hello David,
>> 
>> Coming to this message a bit late I'm afraid. If the introduction of U E B 
>> will mean in the long run that there will be more emphasis in teaching 
>> literature and literacy through Braille in our schools, and it helps to 
>> reverse the trend in which it is assumed that the computer renders Braille 
>> an 'old skool' skill, however the changes affect us old stagers, they will 
>> be a force for good. Also, I'd rather see good U E B than bad traditional 
>> English Braille. In short, let's get our kids reading again, and get the 
>> powers that be to admit that it's not the same as being read to by Mister 
>> and missus Sapi, or whomever.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Clive
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>> Sent: 27 March 2015 22:51
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>> 
>> Thanks George for giving clear reasons for UEB. Like others on this 
>> list I guess I was able to complete the survey sent out about UEB 
>> several years ago. As someone who had, at the time, worked in 
>> education for about 30 years I saw the necessity for change even 
>> though it would feel uncomfortable on a personal level. I taught 
>> braille for 14 years before retiring last year. Along with the 
>> reasons George has stated there are clear benefits to our younger 
>> generation in education. The only means of identifying any emphasised 
>> text in braille till now has been through the use of italics, ueb 
>> changes this. The only accent sign usable in SEB has been dot 4, 
>> again UEB changes this. I do agree that one should learn in school 
>> when a capital is used and for this reason I was against the use of 
>> the capitals sign up till now. the 63 braille characters can be used 
>> far more effectively as we will learn in time through ueb but those 
>> benefits will mostly be experienced by those much younger th
> an
>> ourselves. I, for one, can put up with the inconvenience changes will make 
>> to my use of braille for a while if that benefits young braille learners and 
>> users.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 16:45, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>> 
>>> For every single change, there has been very good reason.  The UEB project 
>>> began over 20 years ago, and has been no secret.
>>> 
>>> Harmonising the rules such ALL English braille is the same, makes perfect 
>>> sense.  Many readers may never receive hard copy English braille from other 
>>> countries, but be assured there is a great deal of material which crosses 
>>> borders internationally.  Indeed it might surprise you to know that many 
>>> schools, universities and exam boards call for braille from the UK and of 
>>> course America.
>>> 
>>> Another major consideration is the huge cost of producing braille.  You can 
>>> purchase an ink jet printer for as little as ?40, but even a personal 
>>> braille embosser will set you back more than fifty times that, before you 
>>> even buy paper.
>>> 
>>> In the production arena, the cost of hardware is even more, but that's only 
>>> part of the exercise.  Transcription itself has to be automated to keep 
>>> costs down.  Good braille producers will proof read, but again this means 
>>> paying someone.  But what is actually being proofed?  I will almost 
>>> guarantee that well over 50% of mistakes found occur in the original print 
>>> version.
>>> 
>>> There is also a growing need to back-translate, and UEB eliminates many of 
>>> the issue there.
>>> 
>>> George
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 15:23
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>> 
>>> Hi Derek
>>> 
>>> I'm not against capitalisation, but I do rather wish Braille was left alone.
>>> Although I prefer audio books nowadays, I do still care passionately about 
>>> Braille, and have it as part of my life.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx 
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Derek Hornby
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 14:51
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>> 
>>> Hi Jackie
>>> Capitalisation, should be  taught at school, as part of computer related 
>>> lessons.
>>> 
>>> One may just as easily  argue that we shouldn't have grade 2  Braille, on 
>>> the grounds  the grade 2 abbreviations don't apply for print!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,  Derek
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:42 PM
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>> 
>>> I'm not opposed to capitalisation, I think it is important for Braille 
>>> readers to identify the differences in written language.  I will be 
>>> interested to read some of these changes in literature when they come into 
>>> effect.  I guess whether I like it or not it's happening anyway!
>>> (smile)
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx 
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:30
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>> 
>>> Hi Derek,
>>> 
>>> I feel the answer to point two is that it'll be easier to share books 
>>> across borders. It'll be a good thing in the long term if it means that 
>>> more books, or files for producing them, can be shared more widely and read 
>>> more easily throughout the English-speaking world.
>>> 
>>> As to point three, if you read capitalisation you'll more likely be 
>>> able to write it properly, and so your written communications will 
>>> be more presentable in what is, after all, a sighted world. The 
>>> problem is that only
>>> 64 symbols to play with, you end up with a complicated system of dot sixes 
>>> in different places to imply that a whole passage is capitalised, or a 
>>> whole passage has initial caps, or a word is entirely capitalised, or a 
>>> word has it's first letter written in upper case. This is what I meant by 
>>> the risk of letters drowning in a sea of additional braille symbols. That's 
>>> why I wrote all that random jibberish around the word 'Best', in my 
>>> previous message. I won't do it again.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Clive
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of David Griffith
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:11
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Changes in Braille
>>> 
>>> I have taken the liberty of changing the subject line as the discussion 
>>> below whilst important now has little to do with RNIB Branding.
>>> 
>>> David Griffith
>>> 
>>>> On 27/03/2015 12:49, Derek Hornby wrote:
>>>> Hi  Dave
>>>> The problem I have with the Braille changes are:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. The changes were not put  to the vote.
>>>> So change was forced on us,  or imposed on us.
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Just because one side of the world  does something doesn't mean
>>> the
>>>> whole world must do same. So I do not see why each country
>>>> can not make  it's own rules  abot   braille,  given that
>>>> each  country makes its own rules about   terminology.
>>>> 
>>>> 3. Braille,  is not print,  so I fail to understand why we need to 
>>>> show uppercase  in braille.
>>>> And why  do we need to show boldface  in braille!
>>>> 
>>>> 4.  RNIB has  akready  started  cut backs  in braille  production
>>> for
>>>> example  New Beacon  (NB)  is now only online,  same is true for 
>>>> Insight.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,  Derek
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:14 PM
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>> 
>>>> Whilst I agree fundamentally with the issue of terminology the
>>> changes
>>>> being made to Braille and the rules that come with this are a 
>>>> different matter and I have to disagree with you Jackie and Derek 
>>>> on
>>> 
>>>> this. On the terminology matter, with sight loss covers much more 
>>>> people than those who need the services of RNIB from my perspective.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 11:35, Jackie Brown 
>>>>>> <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Derek
>>>>> 
>>>>> Couldn't agree with you more.  Do people interfere with how
>>>> handwriting is
>>>>> done?  I don't mind embracing change, but I personally don't think
>>>> it is
>>>>> necessary.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh dear, never mind, perhaps I'm just getting too old and too
>>>> cynical to
>>>>> bother any more! (smile).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx 
>>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Derek Hornby
>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 11:21
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi  Jac kie
>>>>> And now it's back  to school  to learn  the new  Braille rules!
>>>>> If not broken why  do they try  to fix it!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Derek
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 10:50 AM
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Clive
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is some rebranding going on as RNIB now has this RNIB
>>> Approved
>>>> feature
>>>>> as well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>> 
>>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>>>>> <mailto:thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> 
>>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info <http://www.thebrownsplace.info>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>>> 
>>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 10:34
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not expecting a discussion here, but please can anyone tell me
>>>> off list
>>>>> when the strap-line on RNIB's web pages changed from:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Supporting Blind and Partially-Sighted People" to:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Supporting People with Sight Loss". The supplementary question is:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Clive
>>>>> Clive Lever
>>>>> 
>>>>> Diversity and Equality Officer
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Office: 03000 416388
>>>>> 
>>>>> Email: clive.lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>> 
>>>>> Room G37
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sessions House
>>>>> 
>>>>> Maidstone, Kent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ME14 1XQ
> 
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> 
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