[access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
- From: Dave Sheridan <dsheridan65@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:06:39 +0100
The new braille primer for EUB costs about £10.
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On 31 Mar 2015, at 15:17, Adrien Collins <adriencollins22160@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi George
>
> Ok fine but apart from the new braille primer or whatever it is called and
> costs an arm and a leg, where can I get a list of the changes, I don't want a
> full list, just a list of what is different. I think I contacted the braille
> authority last year and they just referred me back to the rnib. It should be
> easy until you come to other braille codes I would think.
>
> Regards
>
> Adrien
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> George Bell
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 3:42 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Hi Adrien,
>
> I would be more than surprised if you found any major difficulty. Letters
> and numbers are the same as always. A few contractions have been dropped,
> and a few punctuation signs have been changed.
>
> George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Adrien Collins
> Sent: 31 March 2015 14:33
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Hi
>
> Ok if they want us to use ueb then there should be help for us who cannot use
> braille very well to learn the new system, I have no idea how ueb works, only
> the info I have gleamed off these groups. If I contact the rnib to get the
> braille code to refresh my memory, as I have done in the past, they should be
> able to put me straight but I think it is all done through the braille
> authority now. What help is available to help us to learn the new code or
> even the changes to the code? I have no objection to using it if only I knew
> more about it.
>
> Regards
>
> Adrien
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:04 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Hello George,
>
> Perhaps the message to U E B nay-sayers would be something like: Pain is only
> temporary, but it bloody well hurts at the time. In the words of Albus
> Dumbledor, it's for the greater good.
>
> I don't expect braille reading to be as easy for me in the immediate future
> as it has been in recent years, but you learn you adapt, you move on, and
> after a while you almost forget that things were ever different - you just
> read.
>
> Best,
> Clive
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> George Bell
> Sent: 31 March 2015 11:52
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> You have certainly hit one nail on the head with a good old fashioned sledge
> hammer, Dave.
>
> I do a lot of work with 3rd world countries, and virtually everyone I speak
> to there is absolutely delighted that finally they can look forward to just
> one single form of English literary Braille.
>
> George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Dave Sheridan
> Sent: 31 March 2015 11:16
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Thanks Clive, I also feel that if it results in more opportunities for
> braille learners in developing countries, which it's likely to do, then
> unifying english braille is a huge positive.
>
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 31 Mar 2015, at 10:06, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>> Hello David,
>>
>> Coming to this message a bit late I'm afraid. If the introduction of U E B
>> will mean in the long run that there will be more emphasis in teaching
>> literature and literacy through Braille in our schools, and it helps to
>> reverse the trend in which it is assumed that the computer renders Braille
>> an 'old skool' skill, however the changes affect us old stagers, they will
>> be a force for good. Also, I'd rather see good U E B than bad traditional
>> English Braille. In short, let's get our kids reading again, and get the
>> powers that be to admit that it's not the same as being read to by Mister
>> and missus Sapi, or whomever.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Clive
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>> Sent: 27 March 2015 22:51
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>
>> Thanks George for giving clear reasons for UEB. Like others on this
>> list I guess I was able to complete the survey sent out about UEB
>> several years ago. As someone who had, at the time, worked in
>> education for about 30 years I saw the necessity for change even
>> though it would feel uncomfortable on a personal level. I taught
>> braille for 14 years before retiring last year. Along with the reasons
>> George has stated there are clear benefits to our younger generation
>> in education. The only means of identifying any emphasised text in
>> braille till now has been through the use of italics, ueb changes
>> this. The only accent sign usable in SEB has been dot 4, again UEB
>> changes this. I do agree that one should learn in school when a
>> capital is used and for this reason I was against the use of the
>> capitals sign up till now. the 63 braille characters can be used far
>> more effectively as we will learn in time through ueb but those
>> benefits will mostly be experienced by those much younger th
> an
>> ourselves. I, for one, can put up with the inconvenience changes will make
>> to my use of braille for a while if that benefits young braille learners and
>> users.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 16:45, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> For every single change, there has been very good reason. The UEB project
>>> began over 20 years ago, and has been no secret.
>>>
>>> Harmonising the rules such ALL English braille is the same, makes perfect
>>> sense. Many readers may never receive hard copy English braille from other
>>> countries, but be assured there is a great deal of material which crosses
>>> borders internationally. Indeed it might surprise you to know that many
>>> schools, universities and exam boards call for braille from the UK and of
>>> course America.
>>>
>>> Another major consideration is the huge cost of producing braille. You can
>>> purchase an ink jet printer for as little as �40, but even a personal
>>> braille embosser will set you back more than fifty times that, before you
>>> even buy paper.
>>>
>>> In the production arena, the cost of hardware is even more, but that's only
>>> part of the exercise. Transcription itself has to be automated to keep
>>> costs down. Good braille producers will proof read, but again this means
>>> paying someone. But what is actually being proofed? I will almost
>>> guarantee that well over 50% of mistakes found occur in the original print
>>> version.
>>>
>>> There is also a growing need to back-translate, and UEB eliminates many of
>>> the issue there.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 15:23
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> Hi Derek
>>>
>>> I'm not against capitalisation, but I do rather wish Braille was left alone.
>>> Although I prefer audio books nowadays, I do still care passionately about
>>> Braille, and have it as part of my life.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Derek Hornby
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 14:51
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie
>>> Capitalisation, should be taught at school, as part of computer related
>>> lessons.
>>>
>>> One may just as easily argue that we shouldn't have grade 2 Braille, on
>>> the grounds the grade 2 abbreviations don't apply for print!
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards, Derek
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:42 PM
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> I'm not opposed to capitalisation, I think it is important for Braille
>>> readers to identify the differences in written language. I will be
>>> interested to read some of these changes in literature when they come into
>>> effect. I guess whether I like it or not it's happening anyway!
>>> (smile)
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:30
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> Hi Derek,
>>>
>>> I feel the answer to point two is that it'll be easier to share books
>>> across borders. It'll be a good thing in the long term if it means that
>>> more books, or files for producing them, can be shared more widely and read
>>> more easily throughout the English-speaking world.
>>>
>>> As to point three, if you read capitalisation you'll more likely be
>>> able to write it properly, and so your written communications will be
>>> more presentable in what is, after all, a sighted world. The problem
>>> is that only
>>> 64 symbols to play with, you end up with a complicated system of dot sixes
>>> in different places to imply that a whole passage is capitalised, or a
>>> whole passage has initial caps, or a word is entirely capitalised, or a
>>> word has it's first letter written in upper case. This is what I meant by
>>> the risk of letters drowning in a sea of additional braille symbols. That's
>>> why I wrote all that random jibberish around the word 'Best', in my
>>> previous message. I won't do it again.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Clive
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of David Griffith
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:11
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Changes in Braille
>>>
>>> I have taken the liberty of changing the subject line as the discussion
>>> below whilst important now has little to do with RNIB Branding.
>>>
>>> David Griffith
>>>
>>>> On 27/03/2015 12:49, Derek Hornby wrote:
>>>> Hi Dave
>>>> The problem I have with the Braille changes are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. The changes were not put to the vote.
>>>> So change was forced on us, or imposed on us.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Just because one side of the world does something doesn't mean
>>> the
>>>> whole world must do same. So I do not see why each country
>>>> can not make it's own rules abot braille, given that
>>>> each country makes its own rules about terminology.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Braille, is not print, so I fail to understand why we need to
>>>> show uppercase in braille.
>>>> And why do we need to show boldface in braille!
>>>>
>>>> 4. RNIB has akready started cut backs in braille production
>>> for
>>>> example New Beacon (NB) is now only online, same is true for
>>>> Insight.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Derek
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:14 PM
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>
>>>> Whilst I agree fundamentally with the issue of terminology the
>>> changes
>>>> being made to Braille and the rules that come with this are a
>>>> different matter and I have to disagree with you Jackie and Derek on
>>>
>>>> this. On the terminology matter, with sight loss covers much more
>>>> people than those who need the services of RNIB from my perspective.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 11:35, Jackie Brown
>>>>>> <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Derek
>>>>>
>>>>> Couldn't agree with you more. Do people interfere with how
>>>> handwriting is
>>>>> done? I don't mind embracing change, but I personally don't think
>>>> it is
>>>>> necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh dear, never mind, perhaps I'm just getting too old and too
>>>> cynical to
>>>>> bother any more! (smile).
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Derek Hornby
>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 11:21
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jac kie
>>>>> And now it's back to school to learn the new Braille rules!
>>>>> If not broken why do they try to fix it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Derek
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 10:50 AM
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Clive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is some rebranding going on as RNIB now has this RNIB
>>> Approved
>>>> feature
>>>>> as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>>
>>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info <http://www.thebrownsplace.info>
>>>>>
>>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 10:34
>>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not expecting a discussion here, but please can anyone tell me
>>>> off list
>>>>> when the strap-line on RNIB's web pages changed from:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Supporting Blind and Partially-Sighted People" to:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Supporting People with Sight Loss". The supplementary question is:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clive
>>>>> Clive Lever
>>>>>
>>>>> Diversity and Equality Officer
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Office: 03000 416388
>>>>>
>>>>> Email: clive.lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>>
>>>>> Room G37
>>>>>
>>>>> Sessions House
>>>>>
>>>>> Maidstone, Kent.
>>>>>
>>>>> ME14 1XQ
>
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>
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