[access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
- From: George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 14:26:47 +0000
Hi Adrien,
You'll find a summary here in various formats:
http://www.ukaaf.org/braille-downloads/braille-training-and-resources/ueb-summary
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Adrien Collins
Sent: 31 March 2015 15:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
Hi George
Ok fine but apart from the new braille primer or whatever it is called and
costs an arm and a leg, where can I get a list of the changes, I don't want a
full list, just a list of what is different. I think I contacted the braille
authority last year and they just referred me back to the rnib. It should be
easy until you come to other braille codes I would think.
Regards
Adrien
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 3:42 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
Hi Adrien,
I would be more than surprised if you found any major difficulty. Letters and
numbers are the same as always. A few contractions have been dropped, and a
few punctuation signs have been changed.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Adrien Collins
Sent: 31 March 2015 14:33
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
Hi
Ok if they want us to use ueb then there should be help for us who cannot use
braille very well to learn the new system, I have no idea how ueb works, only
the info I have gleamed off these groups. If I contact the rnib to get the
braille code to refresh my memory, as I have done in the past, they should be
able to put me straight but I think it is all done through the braille
authority now. What help is available to help us to learn the new code or even
the changes to the code? I have no objection to using it if only I knew more
about it.
Regards
Adrien
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:04 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
Hello George,
Perhaps the message to U E B nay-sayers would be something like: Pain is only
temporary, but it bloody well hurts at the time. In the words of Albus
Dumbledor, it's for the greater good.
I don't expect braille reading to be as easy for me in the immediate future as
it has been in recent years, but you learn you adapt, you move on, and after a
while you almost forget that things were ever different - you just read.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
George Bell
Sent: 31 March 2015 11:52
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
You have certainly hit one nail on the head with a good old fashioned sledge
hammer, Dave.
I do a lot of work with 3rd world countries, and virtually everyone I speak to
there is absolutely delighted that finally they can look forward to just one
single form of English literary Braille.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Dave Sheridan
Sent: 31 March 2015 11:16
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
Thanks Clive, I also feel that if it results in more opportunities for braille
learners in developing countries, which it's likely to do, then unifying
english braille is a huge positive.
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On 31 Mar 2015, at 10:06, Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> Hello David,
>
> Coming to this message a bit late I'm afraid. If the introduction of U E B
> will mean in the long run that there will be more emphasis in teaching
> literature and literacy through Braille in our schools, and it helps to
> reverse the trend in which it is assumed that the computer renders Braille an
> 'old skool' skill, however the changes affect us old stagers, they will be a
> force for good. Also, I'd rather see good U E B than bad traditional English
> Braille. In short, let's get our kids reading again, and get the powers that
> be to admit that it's not the same as being read to by Mister and missus
> Sapi, or whomever.
>
>
> Best,
> Clive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
> Sent: 27 March 2015 22:51
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Thanks George for giving clear reasons for UEB. Like others on this
> list I guess I was able to complete the survey sent out about UEB
> several years ago. As someone who had, at the time, worked in
> education for about 30 years I saw the necessity for change even
> though it would feel uncomfortable on a personal level. I taught
> braille for 14 years before retiring last year. Along with the reasons
> George has stated there are clear benefits to our younger generation
> in education. The only means of identifying any emphasised text in
> braille till now has been through the use of italics, ueb changes
> this. The only accent sign usable in SEB has been dot 4, again UEB
> changes this. I do agree that one should learn in school when a
> capital is used and for this reason I was against the use of the
> capitals sign up till now. the 63 braille characters can be used far
> more effectively as we will learn in time through ueb but those
> benefits will mostly be experienced by those much younger th
an
> ourselves. I, for one, can put up with the inconvenience changes will make
> to my use of braille for a while if that benefits young braille learners and
> users.
>
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 16:45, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> For every single change, there has been very good reason. The UEB project
>> began over 20 years ago, and has been no secret.
>>
>> Harmonising the rules such ALL English braille is the same, makes perfect
>> sense. Many readers may never receive hard copy English braille from other
>> countries, but be assured there is a great deal of material which crosses
>> borders internationally. Indeed it might surprise you to know that many
>> schools, universities and exam boards call for braille from the UK and of
>> course America.
>>
>> Another major consideration is the huge cost of producing braille. You can
>> purchase an ink jet printer for as little as 40, but even a personal
>> braille embosser will set you back more than fifty times that, before you
>> even buy paper.
>>
>> In the production arena, the cost of hardware is even more, but that's only
>> part of the exercise. Transcription itself has to be automated to keep
>> costs down. Good braille producers will proof read, but again this means
>> paying someone. But what is actually being proofed? I will almost
>> guarantee that well over 50% of mistakes found occur in the original print
>> version.
>>
>> There is also a growing need to back-translate, and UEB eliminates many of
>> the issue there.
>>
>> George
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>> Sent: 27 March 2015 15:23
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>
>> Hi Derek
>>
>> I'm not against capitalisation, but I do rather wish Braille was left alone.
>> Although I prefer audio books nowadays, I do still care passionately about
>> Braille, and have it as part of my life.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Jackie Brown
>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>> Skype: thejackmate
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Derek Hornby
>> Sent: 27 March 2015 14:51
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>
>> Hi Jackie
>> Capitalisation, should be taught at school, as part of computer related
>> lessons.
>>
>> One may just as easily argue that we shouldn't have grade 2 Braille, on
>> the grounds the grade 2 abbreviations don't apply for print!
>>
>>
>> Regards, Derek
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:42 PM
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>
>> I'm not opposed to capitalisation, I think it is important for Braille
>> readers to identify the differences in written language. I will be
>> interested to read some of these changes in literature when they come into
>> effect. I guess whether I like it or not it's happening anyway!
>> (smile)
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Jackie Brown
>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>> Skype: thejackmate
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:30
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>>
>> Hi Derek,
>>
>> I feel the answer to point two is that it'll be easier to share books across
>> borders. It'll be a good thing in the long term if it means that more books,
>> or files for producing them, can be shared more widely and read more easily
>> throughout the English-speaking world.
>>
>> As to point three, if you read capitalisation you'll more likely be
>> able to write it properly, and so your written communications will be
>> more presentable in what is, after all, a sighted world. The problem
>> is that only
>> 64 symbols to play with, you end up with a complicated system of dot sixes
>> in different places to imply that a whole passage is capitalised, or a whole
>> passage has initial caps, or a word is entirely capitalised, or a word has
>> it's first letter written in upper case. This is what I meant by the risk of
>> letters drowning in a sea of additional braille symbols. That's why I wrote
>> all that random jibberish around the word 'Best', in my previous message. I
>> won't do it again.
>>
>> Best,
>> Clive
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of David Griffith
>> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:11
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Changes in Braille
>>
>> I have taken the liberty of changing the subject line as the discussion
>> below whilst important now has little to do with RNIB Branding.
>>
>> David Griffith
>>
>>> On 27/03/2015 12:49, Derek Hornby wrote:
>>> Hi Dave
>>> The problem I have with the Braille changes are:
>>>
>>> 1. The changes were not put to the vote.
>>> So change was forced on us, or imposed on us.
>>>
>>> 2. Just because one side of the world does something doesn't mean
>> the
>>> whole world must do same. So I do not see why each country
>>> can not make it's own rules abot braille, given that
>>> each country makes its own rules about terminology.
>>>
>>> 3. Braille, is not print, so I fail to understand why we need to
>>> show uppercase in braille.
>>> And why do we need to show boldface in braille!
>>>
>>> 4. RNIB has akready started cut backs in braille production
>> for
>>> example New Beacon (NB) is now only online, same is true for
>>> Insight.
>>>
>>> Regards, Derek
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:14 PM
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>
>>> Whilst I agree fundamentally with the issue of terminology the
>> changes
>>> being made to Braille and the rules that come with this are a
>>> different matter and I have to disagree with you Jackie and Derek on
>>
>>> this. On the terminology matter, with sight loss covers much more
>>> people than those who need the services of RNIB from my perspective.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 11:35, Jackie Brown
>>>>> <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Derek
>>>>
>>>> Couldn't agree with you more. Do people interfere with how
>>> handwriting is
>>>> done? I don't mind embracing change, but I personally don't think
>>> it is
>>>> necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Oh dear, never mind, perhaps I'm just getting too old and too
>>> cynical to
>>>> bother any more! (smile).
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of
>>>> Derek Hornby
>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 11:21
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jac kie
>>>> And now it's back to school to learn the new Braille rules!
>>>> If not broken why do they try to fix it!
>>>>
>>>> Derek
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of
>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 10:50 AM
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>
>>>> Hi Clive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is some rebranding going on as RNIB now has this RNIB
>> Approved
>>> feature
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jackie Brown
>>>>
>>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>
>>>> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>
>>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>
>>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info <http://www.thebrownsplace.info>
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>>
>>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of
>>>> Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 10:34
>>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not expecting a discussion here, but please can anyone tell me
>>> off list
>>>> when the strap-line on RNIB's web pages changed from:
>>>>
>>>> "Supporting Blind and Partially-Sighted People" to:
>>>>
>>>> "Supporting People with Sight Loss". The supplementary question is:
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Clive
>>>> Clive Lever
>>>>
>>>> Diversity and Equality Officer
>>>>
>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Office: 03000 416388
>>>>
>>>> Email: clive.lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kent County Council
>>>>
>>>> Room G37
>>>>
>>>> Sessions House
>>>>
>>>> Maidstone, Kent.
>>>>
>>>> ME14 1XQ
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