[access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
- From: <Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 09:06:53 +0000
Hello David,
Coming to this message a bit late I'm afraid. If the introduction of U E B will
mean in the long run that there will be more emphasis in teaching literature
and literacy through Braille in our schools, and it helps to reverse the trend
in which it is assumed that the computer renders Braille an 'old skool' skill,
however the changes affect us old stagers, they will be a force for good. Also,
I'd rather see good U E B than bad traditional English Braille. In short, let's
get our kids reading again, and get the powers that be to admit that it's not
the same as being read to by Mister and missus Sapi, or whomever.
Best,
Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Dave Sheridan
Sent: 27 March 2015 22:51
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
Thanks George for giving clear reasons for UEB. Like others on this list I
guess I was able to complete the survey sent out about UEB several years ago.
As someone who had, at the time, worked in education for about 30 years I saw
the necessity for change even though it would feel uncomfortable on a personal
level. I taught braille for 14 years before retiring last year. Along with the
reasons George has stated there are clear benefits to our younger generation in
education. The only means of identifying any emphasised text in braille till
now has been through the use of italics, ueb changes this. The only accent sign
usable in SEB has been dot 4, again UEB changes this. I do agree that one
should learn in school when a capital is used and for this reason I was against
the use of the capitals sign up till now. the 63 braille characters can be used
far more effectively as we will learn in time through ueb but those benefits
will mostly be experienced by those much younger than
ourselves. I, for one, can put up with the inconvenience changes will make to
my use of braille for a while if that benefits young braille learners and users.
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On 27 Mar 2015, at 16:45, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Jackie,
>
> For every single change, there has been very good reason. The UEB project
> began over 20 years ago, and has been no secret.
>
> Harmonising the rules such ALL English braille is the same, makes perfect
> sense. Many readers may never receive hard copy English braille from other
> countries, but be assured there is a great deal of material which crosses
> borders internationally. Indeed it might surprise you to know that many
> schools, universities and exam boards call for braille from the UK and of
> course America.
>
> Another major consideration is the huge cost of producing braille. You can
> purchase an ink jet printer for as little as £40, but even a personal braille
> embosser will set you back more than fifty times that, before you even buy
> paper.
>
> In the production arena, the cost of hardware is even more, but that's only
> part of the exercise. Transcription itself has to be automated to keep costs
> down. Good braille producers will proof read, but again this means paying
> someone. But what is actually being proofed? I will almost guarantee that
> well over 50% of mistakes found occur in the original print version.
>
> There is also a growing need to back-translate, and UEB eliminates many of
> the issue there.
>
> George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
> Sent: 27 March 2015 15:23
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Hi Derek
>
> I'm not against capitalisation, but I do rather wish Braille was left alone.
> Although I prefer audio books nowadays, I do still care passionately about
> Braille, and have it as part of my life.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jackie Brown
> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
> Skype: thejackmate
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Derek Hornby
> Sent: 27 March 2015 14:51
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Hi Jackie
> Capitalisation, should be taught at school, as part of computer related
> lessons.
>
> One may just as easily argue that we shouldn't have grade 2 Braille, on the
> grounds the grade 2 abbreviations don't apply for print!
>
>
> Regards, Derek
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Jackie Brown
> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:42 PM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> I'm not opposed to capitalisation, I think it is important for Braille
> readers to identify the differences in written language. I will be
> interested to read some of these changes in literature when they come into
> effect. I guess whether I like it or not it's happening anyway!
> (smile)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jackie Brown
> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
> Skype: thejackmate
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:30
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Changes in Braille
>
> Hi Derek,
>
> I feel the answer to point two is that it'll be easier to share books across
> borders. It'll be a good thing in the long term if it means that more books,
> or files for producing them, can be shared more widely and read more easily
> throughout the English-speaking world.
>
> As to point three, if you read capitalisation you'll more likely be
> able to write it properly, and so your written communications will be
> more presentable in what is, after all, a sighted world. The problem
> is that only
> 64 symbols to play with, you end up with a complicated system of dot sixes in
> different places to imply that a whole passage is capitalised, or a whole
> passage has initial caps, or a word is entirely capitalised, or a word has
> it's first letter written in upper case. This is what I meant by the risk of
> letters drowning in a sea of additional braille symbols. That's why I wrote
> all that random jibberish around the word 'Best', in my previous message. I
> won't do it again.
>
> Best,
> Clive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of David Griffith
> Sent: 27 March 2015 13:11
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Changes in Braille
>
> I have taken the liberty of changing the subject line as the discussion below
> whilst important now has little to do with RNIB Branding.
>
> David Griffith
>
>> On 27/03/2015 12:49, Derek Hornby wrote:
>> Hi Dave
>> The problem I have with the Braille changes are:
>>
>> 1. The changes were not put to the vote.
>> So change was forced on us, or imposed on us.
>>
>> 2. Just because one side of the world does something doesn't mean
> the
>> whole world must do same. So I do not see why each country
>> can not make it's own rules abot braille, given that
>> each country makes its own rules about terminology.
>>
>> 3. Braille, is not print, so I fail to understand why we need to
>> show uppercase in braille.
>> And why do we need to show boldface in braille!
>>
>> 4. RNIB has akready started cut backs in braille production
> for
>> example New Beacon (NB) is now only online, same is true for
>> Insight.
>>
>> Regards, Derek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Dave Sheridan
>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:14 PM
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>
>> Whilst I agree fundamentally with the issue of terminology the
> changes
>> being made to Braille and the rules that come with this are a
>> different matter and I have to disagree with you Jackie and Derek on
>
>> this. On the terminology matter, with sight loss covers much more
>> people than those who need the services of RNIB from my perspective.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On 27 Mar 2015, at 11:35, Jackie Brown <jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi Derek
>>>
>>> Couldn't agree with you more. Do people interfere with how
>> handwriting is
>>> done? I don't mind embracing change, but I personally don't think
>> it is
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> Oh dear, never mind, perhaps I'm just getting too old and too
>> cynical to
>>> bother any more! (smile).
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of
>>> Derek Hornby
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 11:21
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>
>>> Hi Jac kie
>>> And now it's back to school to learn the new Braille rules!
>>> If not broken why do they try to fix it!
>>>
>>> Derek
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of
>>> Jackie Brown
>>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 10:50 AM
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>
>>> Hi Clive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is some rebranding going on as RNIB now has this RNIB
> Approved
>> feature
>>> as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jackie Brown
>>>
>>> Emails: thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:thebrownsplace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>> Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jackieannbrown62@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>> jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jackie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>> Website: www.thebrownsplace.info <http://www.thebrownsplace.info>
>>>
>>> Twitter: @thebrownsplace
>>>
>>> Skype: thejackmate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of
>>> Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: 27 March 2015 10:34
>>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Off-topic - RNIB Branding
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not expecting a discussion here, but please can anyone tell me
>> off list
>>> when the strap-line on RNIB's web pages changed from:
>>>
>>> "Supporting Blind and Partially-Sighted People" to:
>>>
>>> "Supporting People with Sight Loss". The supplementary question is:
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Clive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Clive Lever
>>>
>>> Diversity and Equality Officer
>>>
>>> Kent County Council
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Office: 03000 416388
>>>
>>> Email: clive.lever@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kent County Council
>>>
>>> Room G37
>>>
>>> Sessions House
>>>
>>> Maidstone, Kent.
>>>
>>> ME14 1XQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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