The problem isn't just the format. For example, Tissot supplied an audio version of the manual for their vibrating watch on CD. But it might as well have been in Cyrillic script for all the sense it made to me. In fact I can usually read print instructions, but again have fantastic difficulty comprehending some of them. Ian Macrae Editor Disability Now +44 20 7619 7115 +447795 968743 -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Page Sent: 18 October 2007 11:47 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Buying specialist technology without accessible instructions Hi Steve. I think you have hit on the issue here, you ask what format the user wants. Obviously selling products such as the Sonus 1 XT or Olympus DS30 through main stream suppliers is a bit different. while accessible instructions would be nice and it would be good if staff did ask, we all know that the reality is that this may not happen so providing a CD with both audio instructions and the text of the manual is a solution that should address the needs of the vast majority of users. There are however clearly situations where Braille instructions would be required or tapes would be required. It would be helpful if manufacturers could have a code of practice providing a means by which people could acces something other than a printed instruction book or a pdf of same book if required. Regards graham Graham Page Home Phone: 0207 265 9493 Mobile: 07753 607980 Fax: 0870 706 2773 Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx Skype: gabriel_mcbird ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Buying specialist technology without accessible instructions Hi Jackie, I totally agree with you here. But I can also see the other side. If you offer something by default in an alternative format, what format do you offer it in? If you give someone a tape, they may not have a tape recorder. Unlikely, but I have come across it. If you give someone a CD player, they may not have the machine to play it on. Give them a Daisy book, and again the same applies. Give them Braille, and they may not be able to read it. So while I fully agree with you, what alternative format do you give them by default? And I stress by default. If I sell you a Colorino, I know you have a computer, so I can Email you the instructions. But what would be the point in my giving you large print by default, if I know you are totally blind? I would ask someone what their format of choice would be and try to comply as best I can. But the default access method worries me. If you give it to most, but not all, blind people, then at least someone sighted may be able to read the print in the family, as a stop gap, until they can request that alternative format. So I favour the individual requesting the format of choice, then hopefully, but not always admittedly, they get it. All the best Steve _____ From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie Cairns Sent: 18 October 2007 09:41 To: Access UK Mailing List Subject: [access-uk] Buying specialist technology without accessible instructions On the subject of buying specialist technology with inaccessible instructions, I'll be very careful how I phrase this because it's something I've beefed about for years, and it still goes on. In my personal and humble opinion, wherever a company - no matter who that retailer is - sells a product or service to someone with a visual impairment, the instructions accompanying that item should be in an alternative format to standard print. How can we have the DDA in this country if those who have direct influence to ensure accessibility is met don't in fact comply? We have invested a lot of money on access technology over the years, yet I still find myself having to request materials in my preferred format. Using the examples of both the Colorino and talking tape measure from Caretec, neither has accessible instructions, even though I have sussed out how to use them satisfactorily. But that isn't the point. If I could read the instructions, I could surely see to use an ordinary measure and not need a detector to tell me my colours? That's where I'm coming from anyway, and I mean no disrespect to any retailer or individual on the list. Most companies that deal with specialist equipment do offer alternative formats, whether it be through intuitive help on the device itself, or instructions and quick start references that accompany it. But there is still an issue with this. 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