[access-uk] Re: (BrailleSense)Re: Re: Sight Village - my review
- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:22:26 +0100
To add to Graham's post regarding Braille notetakers, it is indeed a minority
in a minority market.
I hope there is room for more than one of these though. I always hope that a
degree of healthy competition is good. When any company gets a large share of
the market then abuses surely set in around pricing, support, or lack of it,
and sometimes derisory trade-in prices for hardware that's out of date.
Its worth saying that many of such devices go to ATW funded people where the
sort of prices that can be charged - and got away with - go unnoticed and too
often uncommented on. Its individual buyers, if they afford to buy such things
out of their own pockets, who are the losers in such a situation.
Ray
Personal emails: Email me at
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Page" <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Hi adrian. I have come to this list a little late so maybe this has already
> been made clear but do we have distributors in the UK for the Optilec
> easyLink and the Braillesense notetakers?
>
> this is something we certainly need to watch though I am not sure how much
> room for real competition there really is in the notetaker arena
> particularly at the expensive end consisting of devices with Braille
> displays.
>
> Many worthy attempts have come and seemingly gone. what was that device
> called sold by Professional Vision Services that had a Braille display and
> wirked on the Linux Opperating system?
>
> I think that generally a product has to either work when it is first or,
> like the PAC Mate, it can be released full of bugs but it can be ground
> breaking, or marketed as such, and so get away with it. I should say at
> this point that, from what I can gather, the PacMate is quite stable now.
>
> Cheers
>
> Graham
>
>
>
> Graham Page
>
> Mobile: 07753 607980
> Fax: 0870 706 2773
> Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Skype: gabriel_mcbird
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:42 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] (BrailleSense)Re: Re: Sight Village - my review
>
>
> Another useful SV review. Pity that Adrian didn't stop long enough to look
> at the BrailleSense properly, beyond its appearance. That is surely quite a
> subjective thing. Don't know that I am impressed or much taken with the
> appearance of any of the Braille notetakers! This one is certainly no
> worse.
>
> For a start, it runs under Windows 2003. For another thing, the Braille
> output is good. It has excellent audio facilities too.Uniquely, as far as I
> am aware, it has the little LCD display which to be frank is too small
> really, but would allow, I daresay, a sighted person to take, say, a phone
> number straight off it once (you) had found it. Also, though, it has video
> output for a monitor. Many blind people's reaction will be, "I don't need
> that", and 'It puts the price up.' Etc, etc.
>
> A little imagination would tell you though that using such a device in a
> mixed environment, such as education for example, would certainly be an
> advantage. Not all blind people inhabit an exclusively blind world.
>
> As for the price, it might just be competitive as far as these things go, if
> the usual currency conversion handicap doesn't kick in that is. So I'd say
> all the more reason to consider it alongside the Mpower. Either of these
> has to be a better alt than the FS offering.
> Ray
>
> Personal emails: Email me at
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Higginbotham" <adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:23 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sight Village - my review
>
>
> Cheers for that andrew, and for comments from others.
>
> I made it along on Thursday and here's some thoughts and comments on
> specific products.
>
> What was particularly noticeable this year is that there are 3 very
> different approaches to provision emerging each which balance ease of use
> and cost in different proportions. The easiest most powerful and flexible
> products on offer are the most specialised and the most expensive. The
> opposite is products which offer access to mainstream products and these
> tend to be the lowest cost solutions. In the middle and this is the area
> which is pretty new is specialist add-ons to highstreet products which
> introduce ease of use at a lower cost. These type of division can bee seen
> in various product types, mobile phones, PDAs, and to some degree screen
> readers.
>
> Mobile phones:
> Vodafone seem to be virtually giving away Talks if you buy it from them
> including via any highstreet Vodafone store for exampel you can get a nokia
> 6600 on a pay as you go contract including Talks for £130. Talks is a
> screenreader allowing access to whatever features are on the given handset
> thus in the first of those categories identified above.
>
> The most specialist offering inthis arena is the Oacis available from RNIB
> and the middle ground products are those such as mobile speak, e.g a
> proprietory solution installed on a highstreet handset but which only allows
> access to the softwares own features.
>
> Note takers - andrew as you say, this is probably the area of most
> development in recent years and looks likely to be so for a while to come.
>
> Dolphin are continuing to work on Pocket Hal, a screen reader for PDAs which
> use the Pocket PC operating system. It's still in private beta with no date
> as to when it will be on sale and there are still a few real fundamental
> problems to get over such as if the hoste PDAs battery runs flat the
> screenreader will need to be re installed when the machine is re charged and
> switched back on. This can be done via the PC so doesn't necessarily require
> sighted assistance although when the PDA is switched on the display has to
> be set-up which does require use of the touch screen and may be something
> which can only be done with sighted assistance although this isn't yet a
> finished product so we'll have to wait and see. Like other touch screen
> devices this one is dependant on text in via a bluetooth keyboard and voice
> output. The touch screen isn't disabled but rather is rendered difficult to
> accidently disturb by filling the active area with the screenreader
> application window which i
> s touch insensative. The logic been that if 95% of the screen is the pocket
> hal window which doesn't respond to touch you are unlikely to cause any
> unintended action by accidently touching the screen. If you do one feature
> of pocket Hal is an alt tab like app switching function that can get you
> back to where you wanted to be.
>
> In specialist offerings, the new Braillenote mPower is basicly the latest
> update to Braillenote with anew name. some useful new features but basicly
> in the same old box. Interesting but not all that exciting. Personally I'm
> not a fan of braillenote or paqmate as they're all too big and ugly and use
> proprietory software which you need to learn too many new keystrokes to be
> able to use effectively. The Braillenote PK range is basicly the
> braillenote in a smaller package which I find more flexible and attractive
> but still not quite enough to make me want to buy it. Not yet anyway.
>
> The HIMs note taker, I think that's the one called Braille sense but might
> be confusing 2 different products I thought was the most plasticky bulky
> ugly "special needs" product I've seen in a long time and I didn't wait
> around long enough for a demo of what it can do.
>
> New, to me at least was the caretek nanno notetaker which is smaller in size
> than a bar of chocolate all be it lindt chocolate which is considerably
> larger than something like say a yorky or galaxy. No bells and wistles
> here, notes input via the braille keyboard are stored as plane text (txt)
> files and transferred to the pc by a hardwire connection I think serial
> although certainly it wasn't the 32 pin variety. The unit can also be used
> to record voice notes which too can be transferred to the pc. Output is
> audio, synthetic for navigation keyboard echo etc and also playback of audio
> notes. Memory is farely limited with I think 8mb of onboard memory and no
> support for additional memory but for around £300 it's an excellent pocket
> sized instant on device.
>
> Optilec easyLink note taker is another offering for highstreet PDAs but this
> one is a proprietory package e.g it allows you access to the function built
> in to itself not the features of the hoste PDA. Input is via the braille
> bluetooth keyboard and output is audio. Similar issue to pocket hal above
> although the PDA used in the demo had a flip lid over the touch screen so
> less of an issue there. The software isn't infact installed on the PDA
> itself but rather auto runs from a memory card so that issue too is
> by-assed. Up side is it's more stable. Down side is that is is more
> proprietory so has some limits of functionality for example it can't send
> out email even if the PDA allows it, it can only sync messages with outlook
> on the desktop machine from where they can be sent. Software on the memory
> card and back-up on CD with bluetooth braille keyboard and mains charger is
> I think around £600. plus PDA of course.
>
> Other:
>
> Voice Over, the screen reader and magnifier for the Mac which comes built in
> to the latest OS was very interesting and and far better in real time than
> demos I've heard over the Web would suggest although difficult to get a real
> handle on it in this busy environment.
>
> Sara is the new reading machine from freedom scientific and is a brave move
> as it is really a modernised version of the old kurzweil machines. The unit
> is quite nice, buttons obvious and distinctive without being too bulky, and
> the ability to play daisy CDs on the unit as well as scan and read books
> makes it more useful however the inability to save data in a way which can
> be removed from the unit for later listening is an extremely significant
> draw back.
>
> Caretek had a couple of other products as well as the notetaker above which
> looked interesting but were quite pricy for example a talking 5m tape
> measure accurate to 2mm for £60 and kitchen scales accurate to 2 grams for
> £70.
>
> Donkey of the show for me was the wireless locator beacon, a 2 unit device
> which activates a buzzer on one unit when you press a button on the other.
> A slight improvement on the old wistle to find your keys devices in as far
> as it works on rf frequencies so works through walls and doors etc but to my
> mind at least £65 for a single pair of units which incidently are pretty
> bulky, too much so to attach to for example a keyring is very expensive.
>
> The ultra cane, a white cane with add-on which gives tactiel warning of
> upcoming obstructions for up to 4m at a quite reasonable price was
> interesting and they are apparently working on a similar device for
> attaching to a guide dog harness which can spot over head obsticles, and
> things that dogs sometimes miss such as chest high single bar barriers.
>
> With regard to the venue I'd say yes it's better than QAC but still very
> crouded, which is probably unavoidable but disappointed that there is still
> no number system for stands and some signs lack signage of any sort making
> them very difficult to identify.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Adrian Higginbotham
> Accessibility and inclusion adviser
> British Educational Communications and Technology Agency - BECTA
> Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Internal extension #2287
> Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
> BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Hodgson [mailto:andrew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 19 July 2005 18:26
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Sight Village - my review
>
> Hi all,
>
> Since I actually took time off to go to Sight this year - thought I would
> give you a small review for those who were not able to make it - here are
> some of the product highlights. Note I only went round a few sights, and
> these were mainly ones I had heard about before. Although Cobolt were
> showing some new products, I just couldn't get in without a major attack
> from dogs and people, so didn't bother.
>
> I did, however, manage to get a quick look at the note detecter, which I
> found to be very small and compact. Unfortunately, however, I did think
> that it would take a bit of getting the note into the device, since it had
> to go in quite a long way into it. I had imagined something you could just
> pass the note through or put the note on in order for it to work. However,
> I can really see a target market for these devices, especially if you have a
> lot of notes you want sorting.
>
> One of the companies I think we can see some good inivations coming in the
> next year or two is called Code Factory. They first came out with the
> Mobile Accessability package, which is still being sold today, which gives
> VI people using a series 60 phone a comfortable interface with which to
> perform specific key tasks. However, they have now got out a few more
> products, including Mobile Speak and Pocket Mobile Speak. These two
> products are screen readers, mobile speak being for series 60 and pocket
> mobile speak being for any pocket PDA. Mobile speak comes with some extra
> tools, and there are add-ons which can be purchased, which include a colour
> detector/light probe, as well as a product which allows you to use your PCs
> keyboard as a phone keyboard. They also have a user friendly installation
> system, but I didn't see this in operation. The Pocket PC version works
> with any PDA, as long as you have a bluetooth keyboard for input. A company
> called Optilec also do a bluetoo
> th braille keyboard, which certainly works with the Mobile Speak product,
> but I didn't use it with the PDA product. I certainly think it's a good
> thing to have a good competition in this area, especially since Pocket Hal
> was the only PDA product which worked on a _standard_ PDA, and Talks was the
> only product you could get as a screen reader for a mobile phone.
>
> Code Factory's site is at http://www.codefactory.es/.
>
> I also looked at the new media system from Portset. Now those who remember
> the teletext systems they did and loved those will love this product. It is
> a talking audio described freeview receiver, which speaks the EPG facilities
> (including 7 day EPG) as well as providing a hard disk recorder (and live
> pause), time record facilities and also talking teletext. The product is in
> a prototype state at the moment, and as such I couldn't really explore it.
> It also has a DVD drive, although this facility is not working currently due
> to accessability of DVDs. I must say a few things about this product,
> because I think Portset have been very brave in designing a product which
> [A] replaces the old teletext reader, [B] provides a modern equavilent of
> the television receiver (where no license is required) and [C] gives a VI
> person a small box with all these features installed. They have a battle
> with teletext currently, since in the Freeview world each operator has
> really their own c
> hoice over how things are done, and there is no standard in making these
> accessible or presentable to anything other than a standard Freeview box.
>
> If you were going to Sight Village this week, I would definitely give this a
> look.
>
> I also met up with Blazie who explained about the new version of the Pacmate
> software, and they were updating current units whilst there (although I was
> very early in the morning, and it was very quiet in the stand).
> Unfortunately I did not have my unit with me, and when trying to download
> update from FS direct, it told me my serial was not allowed!! Will need to
> get that sorted.
>
> At Steve's stand I looked at the new System Access from Freedombox, which I
> was very impressed with. There are two versions available for portable
> use - one on a CD and one on a USB key. The USB key version I think came in
> at just over £300, including all the software. I am not sure whether you
> need to keep a Freedombox subscription up with that as well yearly. I was
> very impressed with the plug in, use it, remove it and no trace being left
> approach, which unfortunately is not the same with the Dolphin Pen (although
> the Dolphin Pen has magnification, and needs no yearly subscription). The
> system also has a recovery option, which means if the contents gets damaged,
> you can re-install the contents if you have an active Internet connection.
> Unfortunately, due to no connection being available, we were not able to
> look at the Freedom Box itself. I have downloaded a copy, but am only able
> to look at the desktop bit, and not System Access, so can't say how well the
> screen rea
> der performs. There was also the GW Micro notetaker there, but
> unfortunately I got so swampt with notetakers today, I didn't get to
> memorise what the specialities with this one were.
>
> I also saw the Oacis (spell) mobile from RNIB, which although has only basic
> features, is smaller than any series 60 phone, and the battery also lasts a
> lot longer.
>
> This had been my first Sight at the new venues, and overall I found them
> slightly better than the old stuffy venue of QAC, however, I think that
> companies like Cobalt would do a lot better with larger stands, where they
> could get more people in. I certainly think that notetakers will be an
> interesting development over the following years, with even bets on whether
> we loose the specialist models for blind people approach and go with
> standard PDAs with bluetooth accessories, or wether these go altogether.
>
> Thanks.
> Andrew.
>
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