Hi Tristram On 28 Jan 2010, at 14:38, Tristram Llewellyn wrote: I am not down at Apple particularly but whilst the total cost of ownership seems cut and dried actually the reality is that it is not. Personally for my own access needs the Mac offers what I need but I can definitely see its deficiencies even in the realm I work for personal use. On the magnification side the smoothing is nowhere near that the Windows competition. Voiceover is improving but very slowly and that is because there is no real economic incentive to develop it. Being totally Blind, I have had no experience of the maginification offered on the Mac, but I don't necessarily think that its development is is due to the lack of ecconomic insentive. I think it is a question of not having enough people in the Accessibility department to do everything that people want. Also, Apple are not a company which shout about what they do - especially when it comes to Accessibility. They see it as an integral part of the operating system and they have always had accessibility solutions in their computers right from the beginning. I think your point about needing to be careful about the applications you pick on the Mac is now not as true as it once was. You can now be almost 100% certain (at least in my experience) that any application will work as Aple are insisting that their developers use the CoCo framework which has accessibility built into it. The same is also true for JFW (just as an example), being a scripted Screen Reader, if their are no scripts for a particular application, then you are likely not to get much out of it. Because VO does not rely on sripts to work its ability to access applications is potentially much greater. Although i would agre with you that not all of Apple's softwrae works with it yet - which to be honest, i find a litle weird. Speaking for myself, I think it is very importatn that we as Blind users are aware of visual concepts on the computer screen, even ifwe cannot see them. VO gives the ability to acces this information which can be very useful. For example, if I was working on a Technical Helpline and someone rang up asking me how to create a new Mail Folder on the Mac in Apple Mail, I could tell them (you can click the "New MailBox" button which you'll find under the Mail activity indicator on the left-hand side of the window". TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq