[access-uk] Re: Anyone on this list using a Mac with Tiger?
- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:13:49 +0100
Some very interesting responses here, and I really look forward to hearing
Andrew's thoughts when he's got his Apple Mini.
the fact there isn't, and not likely to be, any competition to Voiceover means
its all the more imperative that Apple hear's what users are saying about
Voiceover. Its not as though they can scurry off and try the competition.
Tristram is certainly right about OSX not being bug free. I've seen similar
comments in Sound On Sound about things being in the upgrade process. Let's
not forget though that updates in the Mac world are OS updates, not just the
screen reader. Apple users complain quite busted quite loudly about the $100
or more a year anual upgrade charge, and its not as though they can usually opt
out, because upgrades of applications for the Mac usually wont' work without
them upgrading.
It isn't really a case of the 'other man's grass being greener'.
Ray
Personal emails: Email me at
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Hodgson"
Hi Ray,
I also feel that you can't compaire Voice Over to Narator. its all very well
saying that Apple shouldn't have gone further in making the screen reader, only
putting the minimum in like Narator did, however, at the time they did it,
there was no other (and there still is no other) reader for the OSX
environment. Outspoken will only run under OS9, which is now very old. One
argument is now no-one will probably develop a Mac reader, because it is
integrated, and Apple are not encouraging competition like Microsoft are.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Ray's Home
Sent: Wed 14/09/2005 08:51
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Anyone on this list using a Mac with Tiger?
Well, as so often happens here, Andrew's original question has morphed
somewhat, into a screen reader/narrator/who likes Apple computers anyway - sort
of debate! Its all useful and interesting too. I hope my reflections might
add a little to the debate.
I am not at all sure I agree with Peter's likening of Speakover to Narrator.
Very rare I fire up narrator, but I am sure that does nothing outside of
reading the desktop, menus, dialogues etc, which is all that its meant to do.
Interestingly, one screen reader vendor told me at SV that the Apple screen
reader was mis-conceived and they shouldn't have gone further than MS has done
with Narrator. He was less than optimistic about the sort of support Apple
could, or would give users who ran into problems. Well, its tempting to say,
'he would say that, wouldn't he?' (A saying that originated with an
unvirtuous lady who lived not far from me in the sixties - but I digress!
Rather like this list, the Apple Visionaries list is most likely a very active
source of support. I wonder what experiences Apple users have had when phoning
Apple support? Certainly, the tremendous apparent cost advantage is going to
weigh increasingly with us VI users, especially when you consider another of
Peter's remarks about SMA's. I do wonder if this first release of Tiger was
indeed rushed out, to meet the commitment of being included in the Tiger
release. The next upgrade should be very interesting.
I think we must always remember that those who review such products as Tiger's
screen reader can hardly escape some element of personal bias and preference.
If they come from a certain background i.e. the music and multi-media world,
they are tremendously biased and in love with their Macs and won't here a
decent word said for Microsoft! Its almost a matter of honour with those
working in the very image conscious media world NOT to use anything else.
Meanwhile, back in the more pedestrian world of office apps, those of us in the
VI world who have hardly had any option but to use Windows have much to thank
MS for over the years - as well as a good deal to fume about! Windows from the
start had , thanks to Bill Gates, keyboard support; something the Mac eschewed
for a very long time. What couldn't be done with a mouse wasn't worth doing,
sort of attitude. On the other hand, I feel that Windows 9x was a terrible run
around; if only we could have gone from 3x straight to XP; but then MS had
its own strategies, and had to finally ensure that IBM wasn't a force to be
reckoned with. Yes, politics plays its part, like it or not.
There are essential differences in detail and philosophy between Mac and
Windows, and the desktop metaphor and find tools have very different ways of
working, and that's just for starters. Also, and I'd like to know if this has
relevance for Speakover users, the Apple OS has Apple Script, which can do a
lot to enable you to create your own keyboard shortcuts and a good deal else.
I would say, in the end, you must judge the competing Apple/MS systems within
their own terms as OS's, and how well and effectively they get the job done.
Its hard for anyone to put themselves outside the frame of reference of what
they have become familiar with, but one has to try and do this if one is to be
fair and accurate in an assessment of what it is the competitors do and how
well they do it.
Ray
Personal emails: Email me at
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Matthews"
Not only this, but there wouldn't be the worry of keeping up with an SMA. As
I understand it, updates to the Voiceover software would be part of the OS
update, which stands to reason I guess.
Cheers,
Mark
Mark Matthews
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Peter Logue
I'll like the idea too. If only the voice was better. I wish Jerry could
have done the demo with an A T T voice or something half decent. I like the
idea of a stable OS, as my windows, or windows slash jaws, crashes on a
regular basis, alt F4 on any given program and I risk losing jaws in the
process. I can pretty much guarantee that I can't go two full days without
needing to reboot. And please don't anyone advise on Wineyes. Smiles.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Andrew Hodgson
Hi all,
I will be buying (probably) a Mac Mini in the coming days and really do look
forward to trying it out.
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