Hi clive, while I'm sure apple had a weather eye on the anti-discrimination legislative environment, I'm also convinced that someone in the organisation, perhaps even Steve Jobs himself had the drive and foresight to say, let's just do this. The fact that they made Braille easily and intuitively usable with their devices indicates that they wanted to go the whole nine yards. It also probably shows that they not only talked to blind people but also listened to what was said. Meanwhile, as you say, other manufacturers continue to limp along with bolt-on solutions that all too often are about what sighted people think blind people want rather than what we actually want. The other difference is that most providers say, how can we solve this problem of accessibility, whereas Apple said let's create a solution. Ian Macrae Editor Disability Now 6 Market Road London N7 9PW ++44 20 7619 7760 ext 7760 ++44 7824 900855 www.disabilitynow.org.uk<http://www.disabilitynow.org.uk> Follow us: @disabilitynow On 22 May 2013, at 17:47, <Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Clive.Lever@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: Hello all, I see a parallel in the word of digital technology in general. Look how companies like Blackberry and Amazon have added speech output to their products and assumed that's all they need to do to make the gadgets accessible to blind people. In the case of Amazon, there were inherent weaknesses in the design of the Kindle Keyboard and the speech output. The parallel is that, as in the case of echo location, if they'd asked us, we could have told them, pardon the pun, straight off the bat, much of the information they must have spent a fortune researching and got it wrong. Compare their approach with Apple, who seem to have sussed it, by and large. In both cases, a lot of time, effort and money could have been saved if they'd first asked the people with the most direct experience. Best, Clive Clive Lever Diversity and Equality Officer Kent County Council Office: 01622 221163 Email: clive.lever@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:clive.lever@xxxxxxxxxxx> Kent County Council Room G37 Sessions House Maidstone, Kent. ME14 1XQ -----Original Message----- From: access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:access-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sean O'Connor Sent: 22 May 2013 16:55 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [access-uk] Re: How the blind can use sonar to 'see' like a bat great minds think alike.*smile* On 22/05/2013 16:48, whizza wrote: I was going to say the same thing. What the devil's all the fuss about? We knew that long before they did! Cheers, Sandra. ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> with the Subject:- faq