Ron, Do the math. From what I understand it is quite normal to expect a .5 percent return on spam email sent out. Let's be conservative and say that someone sends out 1 million emails to sell a 5 dollar widget and that he will only make 2 dollars off of each one. That would make 5,000 returns for 10,000 bucks. Time spent sending 1 million emails? Cost of sending the spam email? Answer obvious. Do they really care about the other 995,000 that deleted their spam without reading? I doubt it. Are we going to achieve zero response? I doubt that as well. This makes it very profitable to harvest email addresses. Considering the clever way the hackers find to spread viruses etc., I am sure there are just as many ingenious ways to come up with vast amounts of email addresses. Take for instance all the mushy stories, chain letters, and sad stories etc. that go around telling everyone to "forward this to every person in your address book." How many of these do you think are harmless? ZERO. They are all used to harvest innocent protected email addresses. On the plus side, I have been reading about a new RFC being developed for the Internet that is going to replace SMTP. It is referred to as AMTP. A Google search will give you a link to Bill Wienman's page that will explain it in detail. In a nutshell, it is going to provide for a mandatory authentication to outgoing mail servers before those servers will accept outgoing mail. It will make those outgoing servers accountable for all mail that passes through their servers. It will make all SPAM absolutely traceable to it's source. Will this eliminate SPAM? I doubt it, but it will certainly allow 1000 times more control over it. I think this approach has some promise, but I'm not sure how long it will take to get this RFC official and adopted. Then, how long will it take ISP's to convert to the standard? What do we do in the meantime? After years of chasing SPAM, tracking down the origin, and reporting abuse, I finally gave up. I've surrendered because this war can not be won by the individual. Now I simply focus on filtering in an effort to trap 100 percent SPAM with no legit emails ever getting caught in my filter. To date I'm getting better then 95 percent trapped and less then 1 percent legit mail ever gets caught in my filters. I back up my blacklists and whitelists just as often as my most important data so if I ever lose stuff I can restore my filters easily. I must say, for getting 200 to 300 SPAM messages per week, I'm quite at peace with it for now. Spider Http://web.tampabay.rr.com/spider1 -----Original Message----- From: 24hoursupport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:24hoursupport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ron Allen Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:58 PM To: 24hoursupport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [24hoursupport] Re: Spam and other garbage Hi Tricia, This is perhaps the most infuriating thing about spam to me. The jerks that spam wouldn't do it if they weren't actually making money doing it. Therefore, there must be total idiots in this world that are responding to spam and making it worthwhile for the spammers to do. Those people are as much a part of the problem as the spammers themselves, maybe more so, as far as I'm concerned. If people would simply never, ever respond to spam it would go away. As long as there are even a few fools that will buy the junk the spammers peddle, we all have to suffer. We're all held hostage by the (very) lowest common denominator among us. Ron For a web-based membership management utility and information on list policies, please see http://nibec.com/24hoursupport/ To unsubscribe, send a blank email to 24hoursupport-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" (without quotes) in the subject.